Tackling Period Poverty in the Workplace with Co-CEOs Denielle Finkelstein and Thyme Sullivan

(00:06 - 00:17) Rachel Murray: Hi, and welcome to the She Geeks Out podcast, where we geek out about workplace inclusion and talk with brilliant humans doing great work, making the world a better and brighter place. I'm Rachel. (00:17 - 00:45) Felicia Jadczak: Felicia.

(00:45 - 00:59) Rachel Murray: But we will also talk about access to bathrooms and period products and the important topic of period poverty. Plus, we'll get into some discussions about raising money as women and what it's like to talk to investors when trying to raise money in this product category.

(01:00 - 01:32) Felicia Jadczak: So before we talk with Denielle and Thyme, we're going to have a quick chat about Mayday. But before we get into that, did you know that we have a lot of resources available online? Check them out at www.sgolearning.com. If you want to learn more about ways to mitigate bias in the workplace and the world, we have got you covered. So go ahead, sign up for our mailing list at shegeeksout.com forward slash podcast. for free access to our mini course on Women Plus at Work, Creating a Gender Inclusive Workplace, and learn more about what else we have to offer.

(01:32 - 01:47) Rachel Murray: All righty. All right. Happy May Day. Yes, we're recording this earlier, but this is coming out on May Day, which is a day that we just love for so many reasons. Why do we love it? So many reasons. One is, you know, weather related, of course.

(01:48 - 02:00) Felicia Jadczak: Yes, we are on different coasts, but here on the East Coast, it is definitely getting warmer. We're getting there. I opened my windows today, so I'm looking forward to some May weather. We've had a lot of April showers.

(02:00 - 02:16) Rachel Murray: I appreciate that. But also, May Day is kind of an important day historically and is very relevant to our work. So Felicia, we were chatting a little bit about what May Day actually is from a worker's perspective, and it has a lot of historical significance.

(02:16 - 03:36) Felicia Jadczak: Yeah. So May Day is also known in some countries as Labor Day. It's also known as International Workers Day. And it really has a lot of other historical connotations as well. And before we can get into the worker aspect of it, which is where I know you want to talk about, One of the other connotations with May Day, which is where I have historically known more about it, is it's basically a spring festival. So for those of you who don't know, I went to an all girls private school for 12 years. Yeah, it's 12 years and we used to hold a May Day celebration where we would go out and it was middle school and I think it was like fourth graders or eighth graders. I can't remember now which grade it was. We were in middle school and you would put on brightly colored dresses and like garlands and headdresses and all sorts of stuff and there was a maypole and the months leading up to May Day, we would learn how to dance around the maypole and you have these ribbons and you do a ribbon dance and you tie the ribbons and then you untie them. And there was a whole thing with that. And it just was very phallic and very strange and was something that I just didn't really think about a lot as a child. But now looking back, I'm like, this is this was weird. So that's my personal connection with May Day for the most part.

(03:37 - 03:54) Rachel Murray: That is so true that that is absolutely all of those. That's that's what a lot of people know it for, which is also important and so fun. But you know what else is fun? Working at the time was a big deal, working only eight hours a day. Yes.

(03:54 - 03:58) Felicia Jadczak: Also very important. Can't speak to the phallic nature of it, but also very important.

(03:58 - 04:23) Rachel Murray: We probably could, but that's for a different podcast. But yeah, in 1856, Austrian stone makers in Victoria, they undertook a mass stoppage as part of an eight hour workday movement. And then in the U.S. and all over the world, May 1st was used as a day to celebrate workers. In the U.S., in the 1800s, it was, remind me the date, Felicia, do you know?

(04:24 - 04:29) Felicia Jadczak: in the U.S. and Chicago? Yes. It was 1886, I believe.

(04:29 - 05:40) Rachel Murray: Yes, that sounds right. Thank you, Internet, for your guidance. Yeah, no, it's right. 1886 after the Haymarket Affair in Chicago and a bombing going off after a general strike. And so, yeah, this is a really important day that we typically in the U.S. don't think about very much because we really celebrate Labor Day on the first Monday of September, which happens to coincide usually around the time of my birthday and also just so happens to be which I share a birthday with Beyonce. No big deal. It's fine. But yeah, so it is a big deal. And we've talked a lot about how important it is to think about workers perspectives and with the eight hour workday. And I think a lot of what's happening in thinking now about the workplace is, you know, does it make sense to have a 40 hour workweek, a five day workweek versus a four day workweek? And so there's been a lot of rules around that. And also in California recently, there's been some legislation that they're working on to basically limit the ability of workers to work outside of their actual core working hours. There's no communication after that. Interesting. Yeah. So yeah, bosses can't harass their employees after working hours.

(05:40 - 06:36) Felicia Jadczak: That's going to be really interesting to see how that plays out given how international so many companies are. It's definitely, I think, for larger corporate organizations, it's not unusual to have a 10 p.m. meeting or a 6 a.m. meeting. I know you love a good East Coast hour working time as a West Coaster, but that's personal choice and you are the boss. But yeah, you know, there's definitely a lot of movements towards thinking and rethinking what work looks like right now. And I think it is interesting because to your point, I think especially here in the United States, we've lost a bit of that historical context for our Labor Day. And so we don't even have any real discussion around, you know, this history around May Day. And it's such an interesting dynamic given the emphasis that other countries around the world have. for that specific time for good reason, as we touched on. But I do feel like we've lost a little bit of that thread there.

(06:36 - 07:17) Rachel Murray: Yeah. And it's really interesting because the 40-hour work week became law in 1940. And that was really one of the last times that we've had any sort of major change in workplace the amount of time people are spending in their workplace. And I think now also, as we're thinking so much, I think the pandemic really helped with a lot of people thinking about what is work? How do we balance our lives? What does it mean to how much of our waking hours do we want to give to to the work that we're doing? And what are we getting in return? Yeah, it's so I mean, the pandemic is awful, obviously. But this is the bright side.

(07:18 - 07:36) Felicia Jadczak: I think it's also a very interesting commentary on sort of workers trying to remember the power that we've lost. Like we've given up that power a lot. So more to come, but we will talk more about this topic for sure in a future episode because we've got a lot more to say.

(07:36 - 07:40) Rachel Murray: We certainly will. So on to our discussion with the lovely co-founders of Unicorn.

(07:44 - 08:00) Felicia Jadczak: We have not one, but two guests today. Very exciting. And we're going to start off with some names because we were just asking about name pronunciations. Yeah. And we'd love to get into it. So we have Denielle and Thyme on the guest or on the pod from Unicorn.

(08:00 - 08:12) Rachel Murray: Yes. And Thyme was very interesting because you're spelled like the, the herb or herb, depending on. So I wanted to like, I wanted to ask immediately, I was asked if it was okay. So like, let's just start there.

(08:13 - 08:37) Thyme Sullivan: Thyme

(08:37 - 08:43) Denielle Finkelstein: Yes. But the best part is, is that she goes by her nickname as Thyme Thyme, because she's never on time.

(08:43 - 08:46) Felicia Jadczak: What? OK, we're ready to get this week.

(08:46 - 08:52) Denielle Finkelstein: This week. Yeah, she's like, good progress. Progress. But yes, that is her, like, yeah. So it's the best.

(08:52 - 08:58) Thyme Sullivan: Yeah. There is nothing more valuable than time. Oh.

(08:58 - 08:58) null: Oh.

(08:58 - 09:09) Rachel Murray: I love that you two are like you two know each other's obviously so well because not only are you business partners, but you're also cousins. Yes, which is amazing.

(09:09 - 10:06) Denielle Finkelstein: Yeah, so that actually that story is we hadn't seen each other in 30 years. Our dads were first cousins. So what totally brought us together was six years ago, I knew that I had this cousin that lived an hour away from me and actually where my previous job, she lived like 25 minutes from where my office was. And I was like, I left my job and I was like, I got to reach out to this woman. Like she's somebody, like she's family. Like this is crazy. She lives so close. And I reached out to her and sort of, that's how the catalyst of why we are working in business partners together is over this lunch, reminiscing about our families and everything. And like what we were doing in our lives. Cause we were both this major crossroads in our careers. She's like, how funny would it be if we worked together? And I looked at her, I was like, I just walked out of my job. Like I'm connecting with you after not seeing you for 30 years. Like, I'm not quite sure about this. Two weeks later, we were working together.

(10:07 - 10:34) Thyme Sullivan: I am an excellent salesperson. I convinced her to work harder than she's ever worked for no money with somebody that she just reconnected with. And our husbands thought we were insane. We were both the breadwinners in our family and had corporate, major corporate careers with major companies. And we both left our jobs to find our next chapter at the same time, which is crazy. And that led us to be, we're co-co-cos, cousins and co-founders and co-CEOs.

(10:36 - 10:39) Denielle Finkelstein: We're the triple threat. It's good.

(10:39 - 10:51) Felicia Jadczak: I'm so here for everything that's happening. It's amazing. Denielle, can we really quickly ask you about your name before we get further into the CoCoCo situation?

(10:51 - 11:16) Denielle Finkelstein: Yes, Denielle. So my name is spelled D-E-N-I-E-L-L-E. And that came from my side of the family is I have all male cousins. And so when they thought I was going to be another boy, my mom was like, aren't we going to have another boy? I was going to be Daniel. And when I came out as a girl, she's like, well, I don't want anyone calling her, you know, Danny. And the joke is on my mom because all my college friends all call me Denny. So my name is Danny.

(11:16 - 11:21) Rachel Murray: So it's coming, but yes. So it's the restaurant now.

(11:21 - 11:45) Denielle Finkelstein: Oh yeah. Oh yes. Perfect. Yes. That's yes. I am. I am the restaurant franchise. Yes. My kindergarten teacher used to cross out my E and put an A on top. For the first month, my mom had to go in and say, no, no, it's spelled D-E-N. Mrs. Anderson, I still remember my first grade teacher because of the scars she left from crossing out my A. You should have called her Mrs. Enderson.

(11:45 - 11:46) Rachel Murray: Oh, yeah.

(11:46 - 11:49) Denielle Finkelstein: That would have really messed with her mind. Yes.

(11:49 - 11:51) Rachel Murray: Mrs. Anderson, wherever you are.

(11:51 - 11:56) Denielle Finkelstein: Yeah, the two of us combined with our two names, it's fun times.

(11:57 - 12:18) Rachel Murray: Well, and it's funny, too, because it was I mean, you are not like sisters, right, where you had the same parent doing the same like, oh, interesting names kind of thing. Yes. No, really funny. Well, let's like we got to get into the work that you're doing. So we'd love to hear origin stories like so you share a little bit about it already. But if you could just continue on, that would be wonderful.

(12:18 - 12:57) Thyme Sullivan: Sure. No. So we decided to start a tampon company, as one would, because we were mothers of daughters and we thought it would be so great to make better products. You know, in our legacies, make better products for our daughter and make them for everyone. And we did all the things. We put it on Amazon and we had direct to consumer and we went into a bunch of retailers because of our backgrounds in consumer products. And what we realized very quickly was that if we were going to make real impact, it wasn't going to be to have another box on the shelf. Our real impact and our big so what is that we bring Prairie products into every stall right next to the toilet paper where women actually need them.

(12:57 - 16:07) Denielle Finkelstein: Yeah. And what really hit our us was, so we're six years old. And In those six years, it's time just to sort of reemphasize our original mission was always how do we advance women in society? We started this for our girls because we didn't want them to have the same challenges that we've had in the workplace and just in the world. So what were some of the barriers that we've all experienced? And when we started to step back from our business and we were successful, And this was probably actually the two scary parts that we've had in our career. And there's a lot of things as startups, as you know, like there's scary things, but probably the two scariest things was us making the decision to one, leave our large corporate worlds and do this. And then the second was in the midst of successful four years into business, when you also have investors in your business, oh, look, we're going to totally rebrand ourselves, rename ourselves, and we're going to pivot into something totally new and pull ourselves out of retail. The biggest piece is in order for us to achieve that goal. It had to happen. And we had been working with a lot of different partners, business partners, so from nonprofits to schools to even offices. And we would sell large bulk boxes to them. And they would constantly ask, do you have a dispenser? How can we display this? What does this look like? And it made us sit back because from the day we started the business, and I think this is the thing Thyme and I would joke in our phones, truly in our reels of everything we have in our, our photo albums, there are so many toilets and so many bathrooms. And like, it's literally between our kids and like, that's it. But because every time we went into a bathroom, you go into that bathroom, you see, if there is anything there, you see that metal machine, it's broken. It's rusty the product in there. Oh, you do know, do you have a, do you carry a quarter? No, that's actually the biggest joke. Who has money on them anymore? Zero. And then the product, if it is there, it's so crappy. It's from 1980, tampon in a tube, pad in a box that I think I got from the school nurse when I got my period in 1980, whatever. That's what's there. So the beauty of when we made this decision was we already knew we had a great product. And so we were already providing a better product, organic, all of those things, but the change had to come. If you're going to create the impact, it can't be in the common area. It needs to be everywhere that there's toilet paper. So no guy has ever carried around toilet paper. You know, we think about the joke is like, let's create a like a advertisement, a commercial with all these guys walking around with toilet paper under their arm, because This is what we've been doing for women. And so that shift alone and just being able to know that that's actually the impact that we get to make the legacy that we get to make for our daughters. Um, you know, that's really two years ago is the best decision that we, that we made doing this.

(16:07 - 16:59) Rachel Murray: I have to interrupt because. Wow. I, my mind is literally blown and I kind of want to cry a little bit because. Sharing this, what's blowing my mind is I never even thought that it would be helpful. I never in my time, when I was, never thought, oh, it should be next to the toilet paper, because it's just not an experience that we've had, right? So we only know what we know, we don't know what we don't know. And it just makes me think about the reason why I'm getting so emotional about it is because it makes me think about all of the other possibilities there are when we start to just think differently. Like it just makes so much sense. And I'm just so grateful that Felicia connected with you and that we're talking right now.

(16:59 - 17:48) Denielle Finkelstein: No. And I think what you're saying though, is there are too many times that we, and Thyme says it, and I actually love it. Like we just didn't ask. And you think that part of the problem as well and why we were looking to solve something was men haven't had to think about it. And so and then we were like, OK, well, a man put a machine in the bathroom for us, that that is something that they did do. But we know that was a man that did that. And great. So something's there, but we just like the commonplace of where it needs to fulfill our actual bodily needs. Like that's the part that yes, it just comes down to that simple ask. And yeah, I mean, men have been an amazing ally for us, which is, was actually shocking, but they've been incredible.

(17:49 - 19:25) Thyme Sullivan: Yeah. And I would add to what she said. You know, I listen to, I'm obsessed with entrepreneurs and podcasts. And there's this woman, Jamie Kern Lima, who started it cosmetics. And she says, you're not crazy. You're just first. And if you think about it, there were so many things and the examples that we use. So first we say men have never walked around with toilet paper up their sleeve or under their arm, and they've never had to go to the common area to get it. And they're like, crazy. We also talk about how during COVID when this whole thing started to hatch was overnight, every single business in the country got hand sanitizer, and that didn't put anybody out of business. And it was just like, now you expect it everywhere. And and we look about other like real like disruption and ideas. And and I remember thinking that that Airbnb and that Netflix and that Uber were insane. I was like, I'm not getting in somebody else's car. And now it's like, I'm not getting in a taxi. I'm like, why wouldn't I like? But there are so many ideas that it is just thinking differently. And this is just thinking differently about it is just that we didn't ask, because when you ask and you bring in I don't even, it's inconvenient not to have it by your toilet paper at home, let alone in public and whatever. And when people ask us, who's our competition, it's toilet paper. Cause that's what women use when they don't have anything. And, and we love the work that you guys do about making workplaces work for everyone, because this has really started into a movement in the workplace in particular, because people were used to being at home and having everything they needed. And now they're going back into an office and this is a mental load. in everything from office environment, to warehouse, to manufacturing, to you name it, women leave their homes and it's stressful.

(19:25 - 20:41) Felicia Jadczak: Yes. Oh my gosh. I'm just like sitting here nodding silently in appreciation of everything you're saying. And I was thinking too, you know, how so many people have never had that experience of having to walk up to a stranger and ask them if they have a personal product, a tampon, a pad or what have you. And that just feels like such a rite of passage, if you will, for so many people who have periods who have to go through that. And then I'm also thinking about, you know, people who may be trans or may not be gender, you know, presenting in a certain way and how extra burden that is in this whole dynamic too. We have had some similar experiences around a name change discussion, although we haven't actually changed our name. So I am curious if you could just talk a little bit more about how you picked Unicorn in particular, because your original name was The Organic Project, and then now it's Unicorn. And I'll just share a little bit so, of course, listeners know our name. She digs out. We did add the plus a few years back, but We had a lot of conversations over the years of if we should change it or not. And we've always kind of come back to just sticking with it and explaining it, even though it's not necessarily super representative of what we're doing right now. But I'd love to just hear, you know, how you went through that process and how you landed on Unicorn.

(20:41 - 22:53) Denielle Finkelstein: We knew when we needed to make the pivot that we needed to go into a different name. Really, it wasn't As I shared before, like we knew we had a great product. So we knew that our tampon and pad were high quality, where they're produced, all of those things. But we knew that by doing this, it had to change. And there were a couple of things that we started to think about. We started to think about like, you know, you think of these big companies, you got your Coca-Cola, you got the bears, like all of these things, there's mascots. So there was a piece of that that was really important for us that were identifiable. Top of the organic project was not identifiable. Um, it was a mouthful. What this is, is that it needed to be identifiable. And when we started really toying around with names themselves, unicorns are optimistic. They're unique, like all these things that we're talking about. And, you know, we, of course, like, ha ha ha, we'd love to be a billion dollar. We'd love to be a billion dollar company. So yes, it's, there's the unicorn piece, but it really does come down to that. There's an, an individualization on, on when it comes to a unicorn, all those, those words that you can put around and associate with a unicorn. We loved that. And then it came down to like, okay, it's a unicorn in every stall. And so there's just, there's something really powerful about those words. I will say too, I've got, I have a little bit of a personal obsession as Thyme knows, I have an obsession with unicorns. It was like a late life onset, my daughter who's 13. This is like a previous obsession. Oh no. This came on, it came on while we were doing this business first year of starting, I started wearing a unicorn headband and I got it. I got it for Halloween. And then it just like, it was every time. It just like made me feel good. I'd wear it during calls and like, whatever. I'd always have this unicorn headband on. And so since then, so there just was this, we had hired this agency and we were playing with all these different things. And it just, that it just hit when we thought about what. The impact of what that word and what the rebrand needed to be, that's really how it came about. And now, as we think about what that future is, it is very identifiable. The Organic Project wasn't. And so it does go down to, you do think about the bear, you do think about all of these other companies, the Charmin also, you know, you get the bears there, the polar bears and the bears. So that was really the big reason for it.

(22:55 - 23:09) Rachel Murray: Well, I personally think that it makes more sense than a bear because you know what goes into stalls are horses and you know what's magical stall is women's stalls. So I feel like a unicorn just makes sense to me. Yep.

(23:09 - 23:13) Denielle Finkelstein: I don't know. We all need a little magic in the bathroom. I mean, they are sad.

(23:15 - 23:30) Thyme Sullivan: That bathroom. Well, Denielle happens to have a unicorn costume and I happen to have a tampon costume. So it's like old adage, like what happens when a tampon and a unicorn walk into a bar? Like you got the two.

(23:30 - 24:09) Felicia Jadczak: That just reminds me too, because we didn't even talk about this, but how we all connected originally was because we were on a prep call for the WeBan conference. And we'll probably talk more about that either during this chat or we'll do it in the intro. you both had introduced yourselves and Rachel and I were slacking on the back and we're like, these women seem so cool. We got to chat with them more. So we ended up meeting, what was it, two weeks ago in Denver at this large conference. And I didn't even meet you, Denielle, I just saw Thyme. And you were telling me Thyme about your wild jacket. And I would love for you to maybe just talk about that really quickly because it was a funny story. I didn't see you.

(24:09 - 25:41) Thyme Sullivan: Oh my God, because I was being detained. No, so this is a real story. We, we love to have fun. And it is really kind of ironic. Like if you're going to sell like period products, like might as well make it fun, right? Otherwise we could go back to our big, boring executive jobs. And so we were always one for a good party and a good outfit and a good costume. And I was so excited to show Denielle. I found on Amazon, a unicorn jacket, which is a big furry and for those of you listening at home, I'm not wearing it. So I'll just describe it. A big, huge, furry white jacket. And it's completely filled with LED lights. It lights up with all the colors. It is a spectacular specimen. So I'm so excited. I order it ahead of time. I happen to be going to a disco concert the following weekend. I'm going to wear it walking my dog. This thing's amazing. So I put it in my carry-on suitcase for the queen of carry-on to go out to Colorado for WeBank. And I stroll through security, and I can see the woman's face completely drop. I'm like, what's happening? And three more agents come over. I'm like, what is going on here? I was like, oh, apparently, Going through TSA pre-check with a jacket lined with wires and a remote is a problem. for about a half an hour with the dogs and the everything, the whatever. And I was like, oh my God, I'm like, I'm like, I don't know what to do. I'm like, I explained the whole story. And so I said, so what do I do on the way home? He's like, check it. He's like, check your bag. But I just, I merely declared it on the way home. And it was, I do still love the jacket. It was an amazing purchase, but not so amazing going through security.

(25:41 - 25:43) Felicia Jadczak: We need another travel jacket.

(25:43 - 25:47) Thyme Sullivan: Unicorns make everything more fun. Like, I guess that's the point.

(25:47 - 25:50) Rachel Murray: Well, now we have the name, Now we have the name of our episode.

(25:50 - 26:32) Thyme Sullivan: So thanks, Unicorn. Yeah, right. And there was, I mean, our first show that we did when we introduced Unicorn was the International Facility Managers Association, which is just as unsexy as it sounds. And we had this massive unicorn booth. So picture it's a lot of like facility manager dudes walking around and they saw this huge unicorn booth and they all came over like, what's unicorn? We're like, well, now that you're here, we'll tell you all about our period product. They were like, oh, like, have you heard about periods? But I mean, if we were taught the organic project, nobody, everybody would have kept walking, but because it's unicorn and it makes it just so much more approachable for people to have a conversation. And even at WeBank, I mean, I don't know if you've been, we were in Siberia, we were as far back.

(26:32 - 26:35) Felicia Jadczak: Oh, that's where I came to see you.

(26:35 - 26:42) Denielle Finkelstein: We showed up and we were like, are we being punked? Like, yeah, you're in the farthest corner of this entire thing.

(26:42 - 26:57) Felicia Jadczak: I told Rachel, I was like, oh, I was like, I saw the unicorn booth there over in the corner that you were in. And we were talking about your location. And we thought you chose that location.

(26:57 - 27:08) Rachel Murray: No, we didn't choose our location. There was no choice. But I said on the one bright side is that anyone who has actually had a booth would pass by you because that you're right next to like services.

(27:08 - 27:13) Denielle Finkelstein: We were near services, we were near the info and service, yes. So there were people who just, yes, that they made their way.

(27:13 - 27:16) Felicia Jadczak: They're like periods and tampons are services, so services.

(27:16 - 27:46) Denielle Finkelstein: But I will say, back to the unicorn in this, is that we've had people from IFMA, because of the International Facility Manager Conference, which was a year and a half ago. And now that we're talking with more and more organizations, they're like, are you the unicorn that was at IFMA? And we're like, yeah, we are. Oh, that's great. Because they remember the name. Again, nobody would have remembered what we were before. It's been interesting having these conversations with companies now.

(27:46 - 28:12) Rachel Murray: I love it. Well, I want to ask you some questions that are related to being co-cos. But because Flush and I are co-founders, co-CEOs, it's a really unique position to be in. We'd just love to learn from you what your experience has been, maybe some of the challenges that you've faced or maybe some of the benefits that you've had being co-cos.

(28:12 - 31:54) Denielle Finkelstein: I think the number one thing for us, starting out, let's start with the first co, which is cousins. Because we were cousins, there was a built in trust and there was just a built in relationship that there was almost a safety. Cause also we were both making these huge decisions to leave our large, like we'd already left our large corporate jobs, but that this was going to be the avenue that we were going to go after. And so there was this like safety net almost of like, okay, we're both doing this. And so, you know, we both, we, we say like, we both, we both lost our fathers. And so like, we believe that they're like, they're watching over us because they were the first cousins and they've, they're, there's almost, you know, the belief to like, are they the ones that like, for some random reason, why did I reconnect with her? Like, there's like, there's something there. Um, and then the co-founder just became very natural to us because that was, We wouldn't do this without each other. So that was like, holy shit. Like we do look at other founders and we're like, and they're single founders. Like to you guys, what you guys just said, like there are days one of us is up, one of us is down. We get to celebrate together. We get to strategize together. You always have somebody to bounce things off of. I can't imagine doing it with anybody else, but also not doing it with somebody. And then the co-CEO is we both bring very different skills to, to the team and we both come from different backgrounds. And so it became this very easily definable, okay, here's how we sit. So each one of them sort of. They all fall perfectly into place, but, and they all, that's why we are the triple threat because we have the cousin piece that, which, you know, that respect and that, that trust is so important. And the communication, like, listen, it allows us to like sometimes tough conversations to be able to have, um, and have those. And then really thinking about just as what we are as co-founders, um, and the, that We're just, we're both in it. Um, we wouldn't do it any differently. Um, I, you know, it's the time is like, she's going to joke right now. She's the older sister I never had, but she like, truly, like, I feel so fortunate that now at this stage in my life that I get to do this with somebody who's family, but, and somebody who I adore. So we, every time in the beginning, because we had zero money, like zero pennies, We bootstrapped, like we had nothing. So whenever we traveled, we always shared a hotel room. And so everywhere, like we, you know, driving, we'd pack snacks together, pack lunches together, like everything. And like, you know, we, but always, we're always shared a hotel room. And the joke is, is that, okay, successful. And even where the business is now, we don't need to really share a hotel room. We don't need to really share a bed. We do. wherever we go. And so it is like, but the funniest is that one time we were at this event and this hotel and we got upgraded and I was on my phone. I was doing something and she's, I was not clearly, I was not listening. I also like, I have ADHD. I'm also dyslexic. So like, there are moments where like, she's saying something and I'm like, yeah. So she's saying to me, they're, they're going to upgrade us, but something about the two beds. And I was like, she, that's great. We're great. So we walk into this hotel room. It's two twin beds. I don't know in this day and age, and I was like, this is an upgrade? We got upgraded to two single beds? But it was because they had two full bathrooms. It must be from like the 1940s, like a couple that literally had two, it was the two single beds and then two full bathrooms. It was like, where are we right now?

(31:54 - 31:57) Rachel Murray: Like Lucy and Desi situation. Yes, exactly. Yes.

(31:57 - 32:00) Felicia Jadczak: Wow. Did you stay in the upgraded room?

(32:00 - 32:05) Denielle Finkelstein: We did, because we actually appreciated the two different things. All right. You know what?

(32:05 - 32:16) Thyme Sullivan: That's fine. We've stayed in rooms in New York City where the bed took up the entire room. We both couldn't open our suitcases at the same time. We've done it all. Bunk beds, everything. It's all good.

(32:16 - 32:21) Rachel Murray: Who of the two of you, how do you break down responsibilities? Who's got which superpowers?

(32:22 - 33:23) Thyme Sullivan: Oh, this is so easy. It's funny because people always ask, how do you figure out who does what it was, it has been entirely natural from the very beginning, because my background was Pepsi Nestle so I was sales operations and she was Coach and Taylor, Kate Spade and Talbot. So she's branding marketing. So everything that we did, it's either, we don't even really talk about it. It just kind of falls into place. And I appreciate you identifying that I'm your older sister you never had. Thanks. But we both had over 20 years experience in corporate America. And it's funny because we talk about what we could do to impact not just the workplace today in the future, but we both want to go on someday and do other things because we know how hard this journey has been. And whether that's speaking or writing or mentoring or investing in other women-owned businesses, that is incredibly important to us to bring that back to others.

(33:24 - 33:38) Felicia Jadczak: So lovely. And just we can share so many of those experiences too. We've also shared the hotel room in the beginning and the long car drives and mostly me driving because Rachel is not as big of a fan.

(33:38 - 33:42) Rachel Murray: I love driving. I love driving, just not in certain situations.

(33:43 - 34:10) Felicia Jadczak: I feel like now I'm wondering if that's just what it takes to be a healthy, successful co-founder relationship is just having that nice matchup and that easy back and forth. And the trust. And the trust. It is important for sure. But let's switch gears a little bit because I do want to talk more about period poverty, which is one of the problems that you're trying to solve with Unicorn. So can you tell us and our listeners a little bit more about what period poverty means?

(34:10 - 36:20) Denielle Finkelstein: Yeah. Really, at the end of the day, here in the United States, one in four women and girls experience some level of period poverty. And that means they're not able to afford their period products. They may not have the access that they need. And so you think about that, that's 25% of the US population. So they're missing work, they're missing school. And that's really why our mission went after what we were going after. If you're going to create change, It has to be where women are using, physically using it. And that was the bigger part for us is again, selling on shelf as a premium product would never create the change to make an impact on this, this truth. This is data and these statistics that are out there. And. It had to come into, into the bathroom space. Um, you know, our first avenue though, has been, we've made a conscious decision to go after corporate. Our nonprofit partners are all in the school space, um, and more in the middle school, high school, as well as college space. The reason is, is that, and it's. It's the fucked up world we're living in by making the impact first by large corporations, the trickle down. It needs to happen. What we are seeing from the bottom up is that 20 states have actually changed legislation. And what that means is that these 20 states have budgeted for period products to be provided in your fifth grade through 12th grades. So when we started the business, that was not even the case. The only city was New York City that actually provided it, but nobody else. So you're starting to see this change happen. Um, that is happening at that level. Um, but we did, we made a conscious decision, like there's going to be this bottom up as well as this top down that's going to happen. Um, and so it, the goal of, you know, eliminating period poverty. Um, it's a big, it's a big one to undertake. The way to undertake it is to bring period products into the bathroom stall.

(36:20 - 36:21) Thyme Sullivan: It's about access.

(36:23 - 36:50) Rachel Murray: I love it. And it's such a, it's such an important topic and there's just so many ways to think about it as well. So just really appreciate that you are focusing on this and you're recognizing that like you, you know, you're still a business too. I think it's worth noting that like, you know, you're not doing this, you're not a nonprofit, right? You're, you're like, this is a business and you deserve to make it. So, and this is something that everyone should have and it's, it's mission focused. So thank you for, for doing that work.

(36:50 - 37:27) Denielle Finkelstein: Yeah, and a lot of these organizations, they have foundations. They have a lot of work that they're doing. And so right now, the work is, OK, let's let's find those really important business partners that we can. And then how can we extend our arm out into your local community? What does that look like for you as an organization? And that's really the next stage. But, you know, that is it. I appreciate hearing you say that because, yes, we are not This is not a hobby, and this is not a nonprofit, and that is where we can make the impact right now.

(37:28 - 37:55) Rachel Murray: I love it. I love it. And so there is a lot of stigma, I think, around just, I mean, whether it's talking about your period, I think that, you know, it's breaking, talking about menopause, I mean, anything about the women's body, it's like terrifying. So for a lot of people, and I see that it's evolving. I'm curious how you're talking about this, addressing the stigma around these topics.

(37:57 - 39:25) Thyme Sullivan: Yeah, I well, I'll give an example about what we just experienced at this Women-Owned Business Conference. And it was really incredible. And, you know, if this we say that this isn't a brand, that this is a movement and that this is about, you know, we're starting with corporate. What do you think, corporate? It's not your just your corporate like white collar offices. The companies that we spoke to a lot of them have manufacturing and warehouse you know everything from aerospace and oil companies where women worked out on the rigs where there was nothing and ups where they don't have anything in their facilities and all these great big companies were there. to try to find women-owned businesses to do business with because they understand how important it is to their ESG goals, to their supplier diversity goals. And so when we're bringing this into corporations, you know, the first place that we brought it into JPMorgan Chase was the branches. And that was because they recognize that a lot of the branches, you know, the employees in the branches, they're women, they're minorities, this was a mental load that they're carrying. So this societal changes is not what you just think in traditional offices, it's everything from corporate to manufacturing to There's laws being passed now. We just saw one for Washington State where construction sites have to carry period products. So this is really incredible change, this wave that's happening. And it's starting in the workplace, but that's where it'll end up becoming, again, this societal change.

(39:25 - 41:27) Denielle Finkelstein: There is a direct correlation between an employee's health and wellness and how that impacts their performance and engagement in the workplace. And when you think about those two major factors, so everyone's always worried about the workforce, but the workforce, there's an emotional piece there that happens to them every day and it's becoming more and more impacted because of everything that's happening around them. And this is one of those very basic wellness, and health pieces, benefits that can help improve how we engage in work, how we perform in work, even coming down to, and this is where the factory and the manufacturing places down to productivity. Some of those manufacturers, some of those folks in warehouses, they get a five minute break. And so they don't have the time and space to go and run to the locker and back. And so that really is impacting. And I think as we're thinking about this world that has changed for us over the last four years with COVID, the hybrid model as well. It's changed for all of us. And so we don't have the old desks that we used to have. I know my bottom drawer used to have shoes and snacks and tampons and pads and everything else you could imagine there. But now we're like, these women are carrying all of this stuff with them and they have lockers. I'm like, are we back in middle school? You're giving people lockers? And so it's just the same thing as like, you're going to the bathroom, you get your period. Oh, fuck. What do I do now? I got to go to my locker if I have anything. And so it is making that mind shift for your employee of something so basic. Um, and you know, we were talking with somebody recently and like, you think about those four elements, health, wellness, um, performance and engagement that all leads to the performance of the organization. So then that's your shareholders and your stakeholders and all those people. So like, there's just, it's a direct line. Um, and so it's just, it's a fascinating thing to think about the workplace and how important it is actually to create change there.

(41:27 - 42:11) Felicia Jadczak: Yeah, we are nodding aggressively behind the microphones. I have a couple of questions around pushback and challenges. And so one thought that came to mind as you were sharing just now around the discussions you're having with corporations and how you're working on getting into corporate first, which I think is such a smart move. I'm curious if you're seeing pushback around companies that may be headquartered in different states that have different rules, regulations, and laws. And actually, I should probably say I'm also curious about if the corporations that you work with, are they putting them in broadly available bathrooms? Or are they focusing more on women's bathrooms specifically?

(42:11 - 43:05) Thyme Sullivan: I would say it's mostly women's bathrooms at this point and their, their non gender bathrooms. But the most interesting challenge that we've run into. is if we walk into a meeting and it's all men, we are fairly certain that they're going to see the opportunity to do this in the workplace and that they're going to do it. When we walk in and it's mostly women, we get a lot of, what does it cost? We're fine. We've gotten by with this for now. It's OK. It's so strange to us that men never thought about it, but once they see it, they can't unsee it. And they're like, I've got a wife, I've got a daughter, I've got, you know, whatever. We get much faster adoption from men, from women, because like you said, they never thought of it and they don't want to, I guess, call in a favor.

(43:05 - 44:22) Denielle Finkelstein: No paying it forward and flip back. Yeah. But back to your original question, though, it's it's nonpolitical. This doesn't come down to because it is a period. So it can be either because it is, it's a, it's that basic need. And so that's why we are seeing organizations be like, oh, okay, this makes sense. And it is allowing us to. You know, be able to have these conversations, but back to, but back to really quickly just to Felicia and your question is we do leave it to the discretion of the organization. That's not our decision to make. It's not, we, we promote it. But that's not our, it is truly comes down to the organization, how they want to manage this and do this. Um, and that's up to them. We just actually just got off a call, um, today with, um, an organization. And one of the folks on the call was transgender and tears because he said, I can now go into the bathroom and there's something in there for me. And that's the first I've experienced that, but that is the case is here. You are, you don't, you don't know what you're going to experience. Um, and each organization is going to be different. Um, so.

(44:23 - 44:47) Felicia Jadczak: Yeah, thank you for sharing that. And I think it's it's part of what I was curious about is if you were seeing differences, but I guess to your point, you know, at a certain point, you're like, yeah, we're just we're working up until this point, then the company decides how to do that. I would be curious if there's any data around companies adopting products like yours. if that differs, again, depending, I'm assuming over state lines.

(44:47 - 44:54) Denielle Finkelstein: There are so many times that there are so many now, like these, you know, gender neutral bathrooms. Yeah, which is great.

(44:54 - 45:13) Felicia Jadczak: Yeah. Have you, and so you mentioned the whole dynamic of, you know, all men rooms versus all women rooms. Fascinating. I'm sure we could spend a whole other couple hours just unpacking that. But have you seen any pushback from investors given the product category and the fact that you two are co-founders and women founders. Curious around that point.

(45:15 - 46:31) Denielle Finkelstein: Well, that could be another whole episode. And probably a week-long episode. I think the part is, when we started out, it was so difficult. Thyme and I thought, here we are, these unbelievable pedigrees, corner offices. We were going to get money. And Thyme coins it as the summer of unlove, because it was horrible. We spoke to probably 100 different VCs. Not a, not a dollar, not a penny, but what we will say is what it taught us. We weren't talking to the right people. And that is really hard when you're seeing all these, you know, everything out there, like, you gotta go talk to the VCs. You gotta go do this. Like, these are all the people. And we had been advised by somebody or no, we, we actually had been at a conference and we heard this woman on a panel and she said, go angel investors. And she also focused and she's like, go focus on investors that are like you. And that was hard because it's a much harder research to go and do and go and find them and do this. And we were very, very, very lucky. We did a friends and family round and then leading post that we were introduced to this woman, Barbara Clark, who we still call like one of our like key mentors.

(46:31 - 46:33) Felicia Jadczak: Oh, we know Barbara Clark. Yes, we do.

(46:33 - 46:35) Rachel Murray: She's in Boston. Yeah, totally.

(46:35 - 48:26) Denielle Finkelstein: All right. So we are like we love her, obsessed with her like we love her. So. Yes. So Thyme and I did a, we were so excited. We're like, Oh my God, we got this time with Barbara, like this incredible, we prepped our deck, all these things. We're probably not even in 15 minutes into our conversation with her. And she's like, ladies, stop. We're like, Oh, this is not good. And she's like, listen, the two of you are bad-ass and how you're presenting and what you're doing and how you're telling it. This is not right. We're like, okay. She goes, look what you're doing. I want to be part of, but I want to help you first. Um, and so she spent almost like a month and a half, two months prepping us and getting us ready, having us think about the other side. We were doing too much of like, let us tell you our story versus how does this benefit the investor? Um, and so it was really flipping the language and that was really important. And then what she did is she opened up her Rolodex to us. And so here we are we got to meet all of these other people she introduced us to all these, these folks, and that set the ball rolling. It's finding the right people, and the right network, and where the right money is. Coming off of that summer of unlove, it's okay because direction wise, it's what we needed. We didn't go that way. Also. We still have majority stake in our company. We still are the decision makers in our company. And so it's allowed those things at this stage in our lives. That was the right thing. It's not easy out there. We couldn't raise money last year. Um, it was really hard and we needed money. Um, and so it was having to cut expenses and really go lean and, you know, really think differently. That is, that's the reality. It's, it is, it is a tough environment for, um, for women and raising funds, um, and getting into those rooms.

(48:26 - 49:03) Rachel Murray: Well, you said something that just really struck me, which is, you said, you have to find investors that are like you. And that's the problem, right? Because most investors are white men. And so the pool is much smaller if you are not that, and therefore makes everyone just scrounging for what is available in these smaller pools. So Felicia and I definitely can relate. We are We've never taken a dime of investment money and we've.

(49:03 - 49:10) Felicia Jadczak: Well, I like how you said that started to break in Rachel, but I feel like the other side of the coin is we've never been offered.

(49:10 - 50:15) Rachel Murray: Well, yeah, no one's ever also know what, but we've never. But. but we've never really pitched either. We've had moments where- We've dabbled very lightly. We've dabbled. We went to an event that Barbara Clark was at on a panel and was like, this is what we do. And they were like, that's adorable. And then they moved on from us and we're like, this probably is not for us. But what is cool, and I'm so glad that you still have majority stake in it, is that, yeah, you are the owners of your business. And I think having that level of control is really important. And the other thing that I think is really important, too, is like you can make it without the funding. There are so many people that get funding and they are not profitable businesses. They are just losing money. Just pop on to CNBC anytime and you can see some of the disasters that are on there. Kudos to you for investing in yourselves and looking into this and still owning the majority of your business.

(50:16 - 50:54) Denielle Finkelstein: Yeah. And look, if we didn't have the majority, we wouldn't have been able to do the pivot. Yeah. Because what we will tell you is the investors wouldn't have wanted us to even some of our existing investors. They didn't want us to, but we're like, we're, we can, we get to still make the decision. And at the end of the day, when we talk about that profit ability piece, that this is the, this is actually our path to profitability. The other way was not retail is not. And so this is, we're already, we're moving. already into profitability. And so that's the beauty is getting to make those decisions and then have the level of profitability that we want in the future, what the investors want.

(50:56 - 51:36) Rachel Murray: And what's also really cool is that because you are the owners of this business and you are not completely beholden to investors, you can make choices not just for your product, but for your people. You know, like your actual business, you can make decisions that aren't just satisfying, like, when are we going to exit? When are we going to make all the money? It is this beautiful, this beautiful way of business and and like the only I think viable future for capitalism, you know, is the way that you're doing it. So I know it took me a little bit to get there, but.

(51:36 - 52:04) Denielle Finkelstein: No, but I love that you say that because, you know, one thing that if we say often is that we're in the business of humans and so many people have forgotten that that's why we do what we do. And we do like we get to create our culture. We get to do the stuff that we want because it's the people that work with us that are going to make us successful. And it comes down to them and being able to create the space that they also want to be in. So yeah, no, I love that you just said that.

(52:04 - 52:09) Rachel Murray: Thank you. Felicia, I can go on to the next question, but I've been talking a lot, so I don't know if you wanted to ask it.

(52:09 - 52:34) Felicia Jadczak: I'm happy to jump back in, but I'm just plus one-ing everything that's being said on all fronts. Because you both are still majority owners, you're still in charge of this amazing business. You are also a certified woman-owned business. We already referenced that. Could you share a little bit about your experience of being certified, maybe the process if you want to, but has it been helpful at all? Was the conference helpful from a business perspective? Tell us more about that.

(52:35 - 53:20) Thyme Sullivan: Sure, I could jump in there. And the last thing I will say about the last topic too is all of the rejection that we faced has turned out to be the greatest protection. Through all of the adversity, all of the things that have happened to us as founders, we wouldn't trade it for anything. It's made us so much better, stronger, better. And our greatest hope is that someday we'll be able to invest in other women-owned businesses and increase that pool. being a women-owned business has been really important. And we found WeBank four years ago, actually, without fully understanding the true depth and benefit. The only understanding we had is I was the volunteer to do the certification and holy shit, have you guys done the certification? It is. Oh, yes.

(53:20 - 53:22) Felicia Jadczak: Yes, we're certified.

(53:22 - 53:26) Thyme Sullivan: Yeah. So Fun story at one point, I was like, can't we just take pictures of our private parts?

(53:26 - 53:31) Denielle Finkelstein: And this is an exam. Like, I'll take it.

(53:31 - 54:00) Thyme Sullivan: And I will fully admit, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was a little salty about it because it took a lot of time. And we were just two of us in the beginning. You know, and it's even some of the renewals because our business has changed so much has have been challenging. And, you know, there was somebody we met at the conference. And I'm quick to say, yeah, I love the organization. Not so much the process. I mean, doing a home visit in my spare bedroom here is kind of crazy, but it happens. Right. So.

(54:01 - 54:19) Felicia Jadczak: We did a virtual home visit at the peak. I think it was like March 2020. And we were forced to take our laptops and show underneath the desk to make sure there was no man hiding down there. I don't remember the answers to us. I remember this vividly because I was just thinking to myself, wow.

(54:23 - 54:25) Rachel Murray: I think that was a joke. I can't believe that was real.

(54:25 - 54:29) Felicia Jadczak: She was real. We got to talk about this offline because that lady was for real.

(54:29 - 54:47) Denielle Finkelstein: We will tell you one of the women that we met at the conference, she had been on the board for a couple of years and she did say, she's like, there have been so many men that put their wives as a figure. That's true. That is true. We're like, we're like, Huh? So you're putting all of us through this because of those stupid couple of them? Like, come on.

(54:47 - 54:49) Rachel Murray: It's always because of that, Denielle.

(54:49 - 55:08) Thyme Sullivan: Yeah. But it almost felt to us like opposite discrimination, like no dude has to prove they're a dude to be a dude-owned business. Like, what is happening here? Like, the amount of work that we had to go through to prove that we were women to be women-owned business was, it was a lot. I mean, there are consultants that that's what they do, that they'll do it for you. But like, we're like, no, like, no.

(55:09 - 55:22) Rachel Murray: It was easier this year. I think they went away with a lot of, like the virtual visit was very easy and then it was just basically, you know, re-giving a lot of the documents you already gave. But I feel you on that.

(55:22 - 56:23) Thyme Sullivan: Yeah, it was. Yeah, it was a lot. And we've changed a lot. But now I'll give you the positives when. So we from a couple other founders, we like we have funder support groups that we like unofficial funder support groups. A lot of them said, hey, listen, we got a lot of business from this conference. And after being in the organization for four years, we really hadn't done anything. And we went to this conference and it was really incredible the caliber of companies that they had there and the openness that these companies had and their desire to work with diverse suppliers and to work specifically with women-owned businesses and the commitment that they make in their ESG goals and how they understand that it makes for a better workplace and company in so many different ways and how it helps our businesses to make real significant change in the world. We were really impressed with their understanding of the importance of women-owned businesses to their procurement and their services.

(56:24 - 56:33) Felicia Jadczak: Awesome. We could probably really, really talk for hours on end, but we are limited by time. So we have one final question, Rachel, if you want to do the honors.

(56:33 - 56:47) Rachel Murray: Oh, I would love to. I'm sad. Cause I do want to hear more about your future goals and all that good stuff, but we have to ask the ridiculous question of what are you currently geeking out about? That has nothing to do with what we've talked about so far.

(56:47 - 56:51) Denielle Finkelstein: Fine, why don't you start, because I know what you're geeking out about. Go ahead.

(56:51 - 57:02) Thyme Sullivan: I have two goals for this year. I'm going to play poker and pick a ball. Oh, my God. I love it. I'm all in on both, like all in. I'm going to crush it.

(57:02 - 57:06) Rachel Murray: Well, have you already done it? Are you just doing more or you haven't done either?

(57:06 - 57:09) Thyme Sullivan: I took a no, that's not true. I did. Oh, OK.

(57:09 - 57:09) Denielle Finkelstein: Sorry. Yes.

(57:09 - 57:38) Thyme Sullivan: I took a lesson for pickleball. But poker, very short story. We had an investor who we were talking about how shitty it is to raise money as a female. And she said, my good friend's son is a professional poker player. And I asked him one day, why aren't there more women professional poker players and he said oh that's easy he said because women play the cards they have and men play the cards they want oh he then sent us she then sent us a deck of cards and we were like brilliant

(57:39 - 57:40) Denielle Finkelstein: Okay.

(57:40 - 58:04) Thyme Sullivan: And there's this woman, Jenny Just, who's a total badass, who you can look up, who started this, who is a badass, like, financier, Wall Street, everything. And she is all advocating for women playing poker. And there's an app and she has clubs and she, she wants to start these poker groups because she wants, there's so much in negotiating and just in business in general that can help from a solid poker game. So look up Jenny Just. She's a badass.

(58:04 - 58:07) Rachel Murray: She's also a self-made billionaire, according to her.

(58:08 - 58:16) Denielle Finkelstein: So I'm playing pickleball. So so it's not. Yes, yes, exactly. She is. But reading a little like girl gang of poker players.

(58:16 - 58:24) Felicia Jadczak: Oh my gosh. Yeah, I'm like, I don't need investors. I'm just going to make it big at the poker table. Exactly.

(58:24 - 58:25) Thyme Sullivan: No one to hold them. Wow.

(58:28 - 01:00:03) Denielle Finkelstein: Denielle, do you have any you want to share? I mean, it's hard to, like, go after that. You don't have to go first. My geeky. Well, I wanted you to because I know you're I know what you're going after. No, she's got a good geeking out the other sentence. Yeah, no, we did. We literally do. We can sort of like order each other's food. We can do all of those all those things. I was going to say is more of a little bit of where it's just quickly put in like that one to plug of where our future is. Yes, we are storytellers. And it's about getting this story out. Once people hear it, they can't unhear it, that this needs to be in every single stall. And that's really what this comes down to, is it's just continuing to share the story, because that's where the change is going to happen, is getting it into the bathroom. We know that this is going to be a norm. Our legacy truly for our daughters is that, and we have sons too, but really as we think about our daughters, is that they don't remember a time when there weren't period products in that bathroom stall with them. That's the legacy that we get to leave for this next generation. And so that's where allowing us to have time, space to share our story, to tell what we are doing, That's what we're looking to do. Um, because once people do, they're like, oh, it's always the first response. Like, why didn't I think of this? Like, why hasn't this been there? So we're just, we're working to get in front of as many organizations, um, and decision makers and advocates, um, and allies who really want to create change in their workplace. And that's, uh, that's, that's what our goal is.

(01:00:03 - 01:00:06) Rachel Murray: We're so in alignment. Okay. So where can people find you?

(01:00:07 - 01:01:13) Denielle Finkelstein: Yes. So people can find us on everystall.com. And why it is everystall.com is because it does have to be in every stall. And then also you can find us on Amazon. We do sell on Amazon, but the majority of our business is B2B. So from a business side, it is Amazon. We are also from a business side, we distribute through Staples, WB Mason, and then a couple of other folks, but yeah, or you can reach us directly. We're very active on LinkedIn. So both of us are, so, you know, please. We are always, because we know how hard it is as founders, because we know how hard it is as women in business, we probably connect with one or two women every week, every other week, and always make time to Just give advice, make a connection for people because we do know how difficult it is. But that is something that time and I have always committed to. There's an old phrase. Our network is our net worth. So, however, we can help other folks, too, that may be a little bit further behind than where we are. It's just opening that door that can create the change. So.

(01:01:13 - 01:01:18) Rachel Murray: I love that. Beautiful. Thank you so much. It's over. I know.

(01:01:21 - 01:01:45) Denielle Finkelstein: There's a lot of other topics that we could go into. I mean, we're obsessed with what you guys are doing. And so truly like when, when we both were looking and just, you know, trying to understand a little bit more, like, why does she geeks us? Well, like, why do they want, why do they want to talk to us? Because what you're doing is you're changing what's happening in the workplace. I love the word compassion. Like it just,

(01:01:46 - 01:01:52) Felicia Jadczak: Yeah, we have so much more to talk about. I am going to turn off the recording just so our listeners aren't like… Just say goodbye. Bye!

(01:01:52 - 01:02:04) Rachel Murray: Bye! I know, totally. Yay! We hope that you enjoyed listening to this interview as much as we enjoyed the conversation.

(01:02:04 - 01:02:21) Felicia Jadczak: Thank you so much for listening. Please don't forget to rate, share, and subscribe. It makes a massive difference in the reach of our podcast and by extension, the work. You can visit us on YouTube, Instagram, and LinkedIn, SGLearning and SheGeeksOut.com to stay updated on all things Inclusion Geeks.

(01:02:21 - 01:02:28) Rachel Murray: And if you want to learn more, sign up for our mailing list and don't forget to grab that free code for one of our many courses. Bye!