Comedy and Creativity with Amma Marfo

0:00:07 - Rachel Murray Hi and welcome to the She Geeks how podcast, where we geek out about workplace inclusion and talk with brilliant humans doing great work, making the world a better and brighter place. I am Rachel Murray, one of your co-hosts.

0:00:20 - Felicia Jadczak And I'm Felicia Jadzak, the other co-host for today.

0:00:27 - Rachel Murray So, Felicia, we have quite the show ahead of us, quite the episode and quite and one of them. We don't want to give a lot away, but we do want to, because we just can't help ourselves, talk a little bit about celebrity crushes. Just real quick, go. Who's your current favorite?

0:00:52 - Felicia Jadczak I literally have a list. So amazing.

I mean there's so many, I can't. I can't get into it and listeners don't understand why we when you listen to the rest of this episode. But I will say and I've said this before so it's not going to be like a shocker to anyone but I do really love Stanley Tucci, the Tucc, the Tucc, the Tucc. He was hot when he was young, he's hot now. He's hot in all the role season. He is a fall man. I'm married to someone who I think looks like him a little bit. He does not agree and I don't know if he really likes that. I compare him, but I think it's a great comparison and I'm loving in like a weird way.

Stanley Tucci's like little videos that he's been posting since basically early days of the quarantine where he like makes these elaborate cocktails in his home and he's always got this like I don't know. He's got like a vibe to him and so you know the video is like he's like making a drink and he's like Felicity is a camera rolling, welcome, I'm going to make you a Negroni. We're in Italy. This is the blah, blah, blah, blah. It's just like it's so just everything about it is great. I'm really into it.

0:02:07 - Rachel Murray So I have a question. I have a follow up question for you. I love the two. She's a delight. Do you know? Do you know who Mark Strong is?

0:02:16 - Felicia Jadczak The name sounds very familiar, but I cannot say that I know off the top of my head.

0:02:20 - Rachel Murray Did you ever say the Kingsman? Yes, yes, okay, so I feel like Mark Strong is Stanley Tucci's Scottish double ganger.

0:02:31 - Felicia Jadczak Okay, I'm going to have to do some research on this. Please Never fear. You know I love a good research project, so I'll report back. Great, I'm here for it. You is Mark Strong, yet for you. We've talked about this before, but I'm curious, like present day, rachel, like where are you?

0:02:47 - Rachel Murray You know, I'm just a fan of the Scottish accent, which is why I knew you were going to say that. I mean, I just can't help it. I love the accent I'm obsessed with. I don't know what it's like this very old movie that if anyone who's listening has not seen it, that would be understandable. Anyone who has amazing. It's called a fish called Wanda, and there's a lot of people who haven't seen it because it was.

0:03:14 - Felicia Jadczak It is a classic at this point.

0:03:16 - Rachel Murray Yeah, it is, it is, it's not. I mean it's in colors, not in black and white, so it's not that dramatic, but she's like obsessed when her love interest John Cleese does these accents and he does like the Russian accent. For me it's the Scottish accent, so my current I guess I really thought about it too much lately, but I would say I'll put James McAvoy is still like high on the list.

0:03:42 - Felicia Jadczak You're like, you're very consistent, I like it.

0:03:44 - Rachel Murray Thanks, I'm like. I'm like a penguin. In what way, I'm very loyal. That's one. Sorry, I have this interview like, like, wow, like I'm wild toward my celebrity crushes, I'm so.

0:03:58 - Felicia Jadczak I roll.

0:04:01 - Rachel Murray No, I'm just very loyal. That's the thing with penguins they stay together forever.

0:04:04 - Felicia Jadczak I like it.

0:04:06 - Rachel Murray So that's, it.

0:04:07 - Felicia Jadczak So I've learned I have a lot of love to give to celebrity crushes. So we'll have to talk more about that after this.

0:04:15 - Rachel Murray I know I feel like I have homework to do, like I need to get better on my crushes. I have other ones. John shows up there, I have other ones. Yeah.

0:04:24 - Felicia Jadczak Let's get into it, because we we could talk a lot more about this, but we have some great conversation coming up, so you'll learn why we're even talking about this when you get into the episode. But we were lucky to chat with Amma, who is a creator, writer, comedian, user experience geek, and we didn't even get to that part of who she is actually, but she is, Trust us. We talked about her experiences giving a TED talk, what it's like to be a stand up comic and what she has done personally to support the BIPOC comic community in Boston. So we cannot spoil any more of what we get up to in the episode. We've already spoiled enough. So please, without further ado, let's get got with Amma Marfo. Enjoy.

0:05:10 - Rachel Murray Welcome. So lovely to have you here.

0:05:14 - Amma Marfo Hello Rachel, Hello Felicia, I'm so excited to get into it.

0:05:17 - Felicia Jadczak Awesome, we are as well, so we're just going to dive right on it, because we've got a lot to talk about. So let's just start off with what is your origin story? Who are you? How'd you get to where you are right now? How'd you get started? Tell us everything.

0:05:31 - Amma Marfo Sure. So my educational background is in communications and education. So after undergraduate I did professional event planning for a couple years and kind of backed into higher education. So I had a role that was event planning and then student organization advising and space supervision on a community college campus, Like that. I went to grad school for higher education administration, did that for a little while and then just started feeling a little bit stuck. I'm the type of person that up to that point had kind of gone into the roles that she was hired for and tried to figure out how they could work better. And then once I kind of hit that ceiling of they're not going to let me touch anything else or I've done everything that I can do, then it's time to go. And yeah, I just kind of hit that ceiling and was like let's do something a little bit different, Although I will say that as I was doing that I kind of looked to tech a lot for inspiration.

They were doing a lot with creativity and innovation. That higher education just wasn't. So I was able to kind of find a foothold in that space as I was doing some of that higher education work and then, when I left, started doing a bit more in that space. So now I identify as content designer, UX writer, content strategist, just kind of taking the writing skills that I've been developing, frankly, since I was a kid, and applying them to the tech space. So it took me a little bit to get here, but I'm in it and, for the most part, really enjoying it.

0:06:58 - Rachel Murray Which is remarkable, sorry.

0:07:00 - Felicia Jadczak Don't be sorry, this is the downside of not being in person, but I was going to say there's definitely like this pipeline from higher edge attack, I think is very distinct. So you're part of that that. I just had a really quick question. You mentioned you started your writing really early. Is like tell us more about that. What's that about?

0:07:17 - Amma Marfo Yeah, I mean, I was always a kid that wrote stories of my mom. I was just visiting my parents over the summer and she found books that I'd written when I was like 5, 7, 12, just like fiction stories. The about the authors were always very elaborate, which is Bronkers now to think about a 5 year old was so much to say for her about the author section. But yeah, had done journalistic writing, had done academic writing, had done blogging, had done content for a number of different types of blogs and yeah, it's just kind of always something I've really enjoyed and developing voices for things, both mine and then being able to kind of slide into that of an organization.

0:07:58 - Rachel Murray And you. So we're going to probably talk more about the work side of things, but I think one of the things that is just so exciting about you is also the non work, the fun stuff that you get to do. So I got to watch your lessons and laughter Ted talk, which was so cool to watch, and so now you're like in comedy and want to just talk a little bit about that first.

I just wanted to just first question is like the Ted talk experience is like an experience right as a speaker. Can you just talk a little bit about what that was like?

0:08:33 - Amma Marfo Yeah, so I was actually asked to do that before I was a comedian. I did it the same year I believe it was 2016, but I hadn't started comedy yet. But I had a lot of feelings about how it could impact the way that we work in the environment, the way we build relationships with people, the way we get through difficult times. I've been doing some writing about comedy, but not really performing it, so I was asked to do it by a friend who is running that particular Ted X event and I've been speaking full time for a little bit. Continue to, and it is the hardest talk I've ever prepared for. It's also the one I remember the least. I went up, I did it, I left and my sister was there and I was like, how'd it go? I don't remember. I went up and I've watched it since, but the actual experience of doing it is gone. That's how high level, high pressure it was that I left my body to be able to effectively complete it.

0:09:33 - Rachel Murray Can we tell me what the actual process is for that?

0:09:38 - Amma Marfo So for me it was a little bit different than some of the other talks I do, because you have more time In an hour you can play around a little bit, kind of adapt as the audience gives you what they need answer questions, those sorts of things. But, ted, I believe the timeline is like nine to 17 minutes. You cannot go over. I've only ever seen one person go over. Governor Michael Dukakis did one, but you're going to let him talk if he wants. He's earned that. I have not, so being able to time it so precisely, I had a spreadsheet. Here's the thing that I want to say for this slide. Here's how long it has to take me and when I have to be in and out. I have a little choreographed almost just the amount of time that you have to make sure that you don't go above that limit. It's really challenging, one of the hardest things I've ever done. I'm grateful to have done it, but yeah, it's very difficult.

0:10:29 - Rachel Murray It sounds awful. I don't think I would ever do it.

0:10:33 - Felicia Jadczak A quick question before you continue on, because I know there's another part to your question, rachel. So recently, amai, you were actually a speaker at one of our Inclusion Geeks live events in person I think the first one, actually, that we've held in person since the pandemic. And one thing that I didn't really prep the speakers beforehand because it's been a while and we're rusty is we do 10 minute timers, 10 minute deadline. Did that feel like? Did you have like a flashback to the TED talk, or were you like this is great. I'm fine with this, because some speakers have definitely reacted differently with that little beep when the 10 minutes goes off.

0:11:11 - Amma Marfo You know it was a bit of each, because I hadn't done anything speaker-y to that length in a while, but I have done comedy to that length in a very regularly. So I think kind of the difference between that point where I did that talk and I think it was February 2016 to where I am now is I know how 10 minutes feels a little bit better and I'm able to kind of like adapt and move things around a little bit. Ted just doesn't really allow for that. But with this it was a little bit more play, especially because the topic was a little bit more playful and I had a little bit more licensed to interact with the audience that was there. So it got easier, and there's like seven or eight years between those two things too. So in a lot of ways I've gotten better at playing around in that very clearly defined time.

0:12:00 - Rachel Murray I have an off-script question that is related to just how did you get into comedy? It seems like how did you make that mental shift from like I think I'm a pretty funny person and I make my friends laugh to like I think I need a microphone and actually like to have people judge me that I don't even know me.

0:12:20 - Amma Marfo Great question. It varies from person to person. I will say when those same friends that tell you you're funny in conversation, dare you to take a comedy class, you do it. That's what happened. So again, the TED Talk was in February. In January, a group of three friends who at the time I was doing the podcast with they had gotten together, unbeknownst to me and like in the recording for like our goals for that year, they're like you're doing comedy this year. So I took a class that summer with a friend of mine, got on stage and had that recital like August 1 of that year and then ended up really liking it and I was like for as long as it's fun, I'll do it, and have been able to find a way to make it fun since.

0:13:00 - Rachel Murray Amazing and Felicia. Feel free to ask these sub questions, by the way, otherwise I'm just going to be asking all the questions.

0:13:06 - Felicia Jadczak No, no, no, it's all good, jump on in. Okay, so you know we talked about comedy. I want to talk more about some other stuff that you're involved with, but before we get into the next train of discussion, I just want to kind of wrap up this little piece of it by just asking you know kind of what your thoughts are on like comedy writ large and also, I guess, for you personally, the role of comedy right now, because you know it's 2023.

It's been a lot the last couple of years and I think that there's always like a balance between laughter and sorrow, not to get too high level in this, but you know sort of how you're thinking about why it's so important. Or is it important at this point in your, in your experience?

0:13:51 - Amma Marfo This is a big question and I was having a part of this conversation with a friend earlier today.

I will say that comedy has a really effective way of finding light ways to make points, so in a way that you might not necessarily feel compelled to listen to somebody if they were so passionate that it might come forth into anger or judgment or things like that. There's kind of pieces of comedy that can make those conversations easier to have, so I do think it's tremendously powerful for that. I did a show a couple months ago and I was talking to some people that had just seen the show online and come on a whim and someone had referred to me as a political comedian, which was very surprising to me because I don't know that I would have identified myself as such. But going through my material and the things that I did that night, I was like I definitely have a perspective and I have things that I want to say and there are political elements to it. But I do think that it's very different from like something you would see, from like a daily show correspondent or someone who would more openly admit to being like openly political about things.

I think there are degrees on that. The other thing I would say is that we've gotten into this space where comedians are kind of being labeled as truth tellers, and we've been lucky that we've had comedians like John Stuart, like Trevor Noah, like Roy Wood Jr. Other people who have taken the moment to talk about political issues through comedy.

But not everyone's going to want to do that and I think that is a great way, the conversation that I was having was specifically related to Hassan Minhaj and the fire he was under recently, for essentially a New Yorker reporter fact checked his jokes and I don't think anybody should ever be subject to that. He chose to stress the truth on things that I would have made different decisions, but that doesn't mean that every single thing that you tell it a joke has to be factually accurate.

He also didn't use pseudonyms. I would not have done that. I would have used different names, and I think part of the trouble that he got in was that people that were mentioned were then identified and, like some of them, were asked questions. Okay, some of them are asked, not okay.

So, how can you find that blend of things that are true or feel true, but also give people the license to stretch, because that's where comedy does come from being able to heighten things so you can make a point without something having to like strictly adhere to a timeline or what you feel the truth is. So it's a complicated dance, but I do think it is a net positive. It provides a net benefit in times that are really difficult.

0:16:24 - Rachel Murray Yeah, I recently heard someone say that comedians are the last philosophers.

0:16:32 - Amma Marfo That's a lot to live up to. I just want to be silly like air bottle out here.

It is and it's and some people, I think, really thrive under that mantle and are doing fantastic things with it, like, again, roy Wood juniors absolutely fantastic at it. Who else did I want to say Jay Jordan, who did the problem with John Stuart? Like there are a lot of people in that vein that are fantastic at it. But some of us just want to joke through things that are difficult and that's okay to like. I think they have the capacity to be, but to paint the role of comedian, as that is challenging, it's a lot to live up to.

0:17:10 - Rachel Murray Not everybody wants to. Yeah, just be funny and be silly. It's totally and that's, and I like that you straddle, you can sort of be in both. You can be wherever you want to be.

0:17:20 - Amma Marfo Yeah, it's a continuum. I think you can touch those things. You could choose not to touch those things. You could pick the ones that really matter to you and kind of dig in there.

0:17:27 - Rachel Murray Yeah yeah, I'm a big fan of Elijah Schlesinger and. I like I think that she does a great job of straddling, being absolutely ridiculous and silly, with her goat noises to like just calling folks in. Yeah, let's be real, she's honest. Yeah, it's a bit of both.

0:17:47 - Amma Marfo and there are so many different ways to do it like. I remember listening to an interview with a comedian, emily Heller, who's written for Barry and a couple other shows and had done some jokes that kind of got held up as kind of indicative or evocative of what feminism looks like and she's like lots of people are doing that, like Tim Robinson from I think you should leave, like it's wildly ridiculous stuff, but it also says something so specific about masculinity. She's like if you don't think he has a point of view on what like manhood is spread like, like watch it again and I've never forgotten that so it can come across. However, it needs to and work in so many different ways.

0:18:28 - Rachel Murray Oh I love. I want to give Felicia a space if you had a follow question. If not, I'm just gonna like get into it.

0:18:33 - Felicia Jadczak I feel like yes and no, that the reason I'm like is because I just want to talk about some of this like for days and days and days. But I also know we have so much other stuff to talk about with you. I guess, maybe just really briefly, I'll just mention I love that you brought up Hasan Minhaj, because I went down a whole rabbit hole recently with, like, the New Yorker article and then his 20 minute plus response to it. It was really fascinating. And again, like I don't know, that'll have to be a conversation for another time, but I was just thinking about you know what you were saying around the role of the comedian and I do feel like there is an element of like, just like DEI work and DEI practitioners, like speaking truth to power, and I think that it's a vehicle to do that and obviously not everyone embodies this role or wants to or chooses to, and sometimes it happens anyway.

but I think that's definitely an element of it, because there's something, as you can say using comedy, that you can't say if you were just going to say it flat out and the point around like what is the truth, I think that's subjective. So you know, I'll say that point, otherwise this podcast will go off the rails and we'll just talk about all that forever.

0:19:42 - Amma Marfo Sure, but no, I want to affirm that because I do think that a great piece of that is like when you say speaking truth to power. Like to whom is the truth true?

0:19:55 - Rachel Murray right.

0:19:55 - Amma Marfo And like how true does that truth have to be? Like what he has used in his sets? And I remember seeing him. Like the first time I like really laughed after the 2016 election was at a Hassan Minasheau Like I had just been despondent for the class over that cried on a plane, which I don't recommend. It's absolutely terrible. But like the following Sunday, I had had tickets to see him for ages and was excited. I was like I don't know how this is gonna go and it was the first time that I had laughed in almost a week. But yeah, but getting at all those things that he says in those sets like they are, like he says emotionally true and speak to real experiences that people had should it take away from that because it didn't happen exactly as it said it? I don't think so.

I don't think so. I think that the phenomenons that he's speaking about do happen, are true, should be listened to by people in power, and the idea that it's not exactly as it happened, taking away from that, is difficult to think about.

0:20:58 - Felicia Jadczak Well, and you know, like we talk a lot as Gio about like the idea of multiple truths, and I mean I think the other thing too is layering into that concept is the idea of storytelling, which is, I think, what he is talking about a lot and what he does. Because, you know, like one of the stories that the New Yorker like called him out on as not happening was the story of his prom date, and he's like it happened. It just didn't happen on the night of the prom. It happened exactly. It was before, but like it still happened. And I mean he came with receipts and, like I was, he was just like all right, like go you with your receipts, but you know, that's the point right, it's like okay, so does it make it less true? Because you change something to make it a more like emotional, evocative, poignant, whatever it is story. And I know, for me, as like a facilitator, I use storytelling a lot because sometimes I'm talking to people who don't have any way of connecting to the experience.

0:21:51 - Amma Marfo And they don't have an experience.

0:21:52 - Felicia Jadczak So I use myself and, yeah, like I definitely will take like the kernel, the nugget of truth, and then, like you know, frame it sometimes in a way that I know will get to my audience better. But it doesn't mean I'm lying, it just means that, like, maybe I like you know, I use a different name or I, you know talk about how it happened a little bit differently, or whatever, but that's the concept that really was sticking with me, because I think, especially after the 2016 elections, the idea of what is the truth has been so fine for all of us. And you know, and I think again, with that concept of multiple truths, like my truth versus your truth, and like even right now it's happening in the world, and like the idea of all this misinformation that's out there, and like what is true and what is not, and I think it's relevant topic that's kind of going on right now.

0:22:40 - Amma Marfo Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. And again, I would have changed names. Like I have a joke that I do right now that has, like my friends' kids involved. I don't use those kids' real names. They're four and five years old. There's no reason for me to and like are the stories that they told me true? Yes, if you were to try to fact check them, would they come up as true? No, because I don't need four-year-olds harassed for what I'm saying. They don't need it. Their parents don't need it. I would never wish that on anybody. So I'll say I have different grievances with his process than what has been presented. It's like you should be mad about this. I'm like, I'm not. I actually have different issues with that.

0:23:18 - Rachel Murray Now, like I want to hear what the issues are.

0:23:21 - Amma Marfo Just honestly, mostly just like use different names. It's not hard, just use different names.

0:23:24 - Rachel Murray You've already said it three times Sorry.

0:23:26 - Amma Marfo Yes, you're right.

0:23:27 - Rachel Murray Yeah, I didn't know if there's anything else. That's great. Thank you for going down the rabbit hole. I'm here for it. I didn't actually read it, but now I want to read about it. I do. I'm a fan of his, so I'm curious about all of that. So I want to hear about Fodbal Productions. Let's talk about Fodbal Productions. Yeah, tell our listeners what is it? How you started it, all of it?

0:23:52 - Amma Marfo So when I started doing comedy, I found myself in the position where you get told a lot to go to open mics, test out your material, go as often as you can go, every single day if possible which and it's just based on who I am as a person didn't feel particularly sustainable. But there was a time that I did try to follow that advice and what I found was that I was in rooms with a lot of guys who had pretty similar perspectives I say guys very intentionally, that's who it was and then kind of going into those spaces and realizing that either I wasn't getting listened to, because someone would just look at me immediately and be like, well, I don't have anything to relate to, so, like I can tune this out, I could go take a smoke break, I could do something else, or they would be listening, but there would be like this physical presence of like impress me. All right, you're going to come up here and think you're funny, what do you have to say? Am I going to relate to it? All of those things, and it's not a comfortable position to be in, especially when you add to the fact that occasionally you'll be going up right after somebody who has a joke not particularly informed, not particularly interesting or unique about black people, about black women, about women. So there's kind of this added stuff that you carry on stage with you and I started going less and less as a result of it.

I started trying to find other ways to connect with people and practice and get good, and the more people that I talked to especially during the pandemic, when we kind of had options to be more picky and choosy about where we were practicing the more I found that there were other women, people of color, people across the LGBTQ plus spectrum that didn't like participating in that space because it didn't feel good, they didn't feel like they were getting any better and they didn't enjoy the company that they were taking part in. And then, separately from that, I had done a festival in New York in 2019 and met two other black women from Boston who I had never met before because we were never on shows together, because the vast majority of shows would have either me or one of them. We never got to work together and to have to travel to meet people that are in your backyard. One of them lives three minutes up the street from me and we never would have met if we hadn't gone to a show and this was the Black Women in Comedy Festival got to be together. So kind of going through those experiences, meeting other people who were feeling the same way, I said, can we do this differently? Is there a way that we could put together shows that all of the people that normally are like one per get to work together, get to see each other's comedy, get to encourage each other to be better, get to work with one another, with people who are committed to them improving, and that's kind of where it was born.

I met a couple people through workshops, other people that I had known. Actually a former student from when I was in higher education and now we both do comedy. She was involved at the outset. But, yeah, just working with people to create shows and spaces where those of us that are normally kind of pushed to the side From Shonda Rhimes this year yes, FODBALL comes from first only or different. So the people that are first only or different on their lineups and built a set of shows, a comedy collective that aims to do that.

0:27:01 - Rachel Murray Can we like? Is there is our website, Can we plug it?

0:27:05 - Amma Marfo Yes, there's a bit because the URL is a bit complicated, but we are on Instagram and Facebook at FODBALL Productions. That tends to be easier, but, yeah, all of our upcoming shows are on there and yeah, we just work with such talented people who normally you would see for like seven minutes on a show and then mentally kind of get crowded out by a bunch of other folks who are doing things that are fairly similar but not always as good or as unique or as relatable to a larger swath of comedy fans.

0:27:37 - Felicia Jadczak Can I ask what the reception has been to FODBALL? Because I can only imagine, given what you described, in which I feel like both Wayshel and I are like, yes, we recognize that kind of space and that feeling of tokenization and being on the outsourced, and I can only imagine what a reaction in the space is that you were used to being in could have been. So I'm curious what's your perception you've seen or experienced so far?

0:28:05 - Amma Marfo It's a good question and I would say I think we've been very lucky. We've gotten support from a lot of people who maybe at first glance we wouldn't have expected to be supportive of it and, yeah, it's been really nice. I would say my favorite piece of it, in addition to kind of like working with people who normally I wouldn't have gotten to work with, has been from people who didn't realize they were comedy fans or people who knew that they were comedy fans but they didn't like how it felt to go to some of the shows in the area. People that have mentioned like oh, turns out, when I'm not the butt of the joke or not worried about being made fun of as a person in the audience and hearing a joke about me that maybe doesn't feel good or go over well, when I'm not worried about that, I actually really like comedy. So I've been grateful for the people who maybe thought that it wasn't an art form for them that we've been able to bring back into the fold.

Yeah, and then to kind of like find allyship from those who maybe don't identify as folks who would be on our shows, but talk them up, love the comedians that we work with or willing to promote and work with us. That's been really, really nice. I think it could have been bad and I feel like a part of me is always like bracing for someone to yell at us about it and be like ugh, but so far, touch wood, it hasn't happened and I'm really really grateful for that that's wonderful to hear, because I feel like, yeah, that's always the sort of hidden elephant on the other side where you're like ugh.

Yeah, just like wait, just like a wincing of waiting for someone to be, and every now and again it'll happen. We've posted about shows and then someone in the comments will be like I think you forgot to put that on the lineup. And it's like no, no, we remember. Yeah, I remember there was a show that I did. It actually wasn't a Fod Bell show, but it was a show for an online group that I work with called KO Comedy Knockout Comedy, and it was all women and a guy in the comments was like, oh, you left sausage out of the recipe. And I was like, no, I know how to cook, it's going to be great.

And of course, this person didn't come to the show. So then it's just a lineup of six women of varying different backgrounds, a couple people like one from Canada, one from Sri Lanka, so it was like an international show and it was just busting on the sky. That's like imagine not thinking this was going to be a good show just because there were no men on it. No-transcript, of course, not all of our shows like go into that, like explicit bashing, but that was just such a good opportunity and everybody worked with it so well. Couldn't have loved it more.

0:30:27 - Felicia Jadczak That's a good time Mine too. I love it.

0:30:30 - Amma Marfo To be clear, that is not what every Fubbell show is. It isn't. I have to make that very clear. Most of them are just we tell our jokes and we go about our way. But if you give us an opportunity, we're going to take it.

0:30:40 - Rachel Murray As you should. This is the business.

0:30:45 - Amma Marfo Yes, we're giving you the business. We've been taking it for decades. That's right I love it.

0:30:53 - Felicia Jadczak Let's switch gears a little bit, because we talk a lot about comedy. You're not just a comedian, so you're also a speaker, writer, consultant. So could you share a little bit of your experience as working as a freelancer and why you're thinking about maybe going back into the workplace right now?

0:31:08 - Amma Marfo Yeah, so I've done a bit of each I, from 2016 to, I mean, 2020, changed everything for everybody, but I had been working on my own as a speaker and facilitator and I liked it Like again, kind of going back to things that were new to some folks, that maybe weren't new to me, like working from home. I'd been doing it. I really enjoyed it. I continue to enjoy it. And then, as far as like working for myself, I liked a lot of being able to drive what I was interested in and build things that aligned with what I was excited about, what I wanted to research, what I wanted to share with folks. And then I think in 2020, there was a lot of opportunity to reassess things. So I had been, at that point, traveling probably once every 10 days for about five years, and then six months of work disappeared in a day and a half and I couldn't go anywhere, and that will give you some opportunities to rethink some things. So I think I was in need of a sense of stability that I hadn't had in a while and also just like, especially because I wasn't going anywhere, like really missed people and I identify as an introvert. So people think like oh, did you and I'm like yeah, no, I really did.

I missed working with people and so much of being a freelancer. The way that I was doing it was pretty solitary. So the opportunity to go back to full-time work was helpful in a couple of ways. It was helpful to just kind of have something that I was supposed to be doing every day and give me a sense of routine, where a lot of us felt unmoored Because again, like work disappeared, I didn't have to be anywhere. There was so much I didn't have to do but also working with people towards a common goal. Like I don't think I'd realized how much I missed that until that opportunity had presented itself. So I still do a bit of each. I think I probably, no matter what I'm doing, will do a bit of each, but having some things that I work on in collaboration with others combined with kind of my own individual pursuits is how I like to work.

0:33:02 - Rachel Murray I love that. You know yourself too. I think people really struggle with okay, I should just work for the man or screw the man, I'm gonna do this and you really seem to have developed a way of working that really suits you as well as involving I think it sounds like, your creativity within your workplace, and so that's sort of. The next question I had is you've written about creativity and its use in the workplace, and I was wondering if you could talk a bit more about that.

0:33:34 - Amma Marfo Yeah, I I've spent a lot of time really just like getting to know myself and figuring out what I needed, and what I recognize that I liked a lot is the capacity to create change with a known organization, and I'm finding that creativity is a way to convey how that might need to be done and to make a case for new ways of getting things done that a lot of other strategies just hadn't. So I found a lot of value in it, and recognizing that some of the spaces that I had been interacting with previously just didn't have a great sense of how powerful creativity was or what it could be used for it got me thinking about how can I convey this, how can I talk about this, how can I infuse this into spaces that need it but might not seek it out on their own? So, yeah, I spent a lot of time doing that. I continue to.

I do think that having, in spaces that are typically regimented for any number of reasons, being able to kind of walk people through yes, creativity is valuable. Yes, even if you don't think you're creative, you have the capacity to be, and here's how you can use that. It's freed people, I think from some of the things that they feel like they should be doing or have to do, and some of them you do have to do, but some of them you don't. Some of it is just I've never thought of another way to do it and that that's not a good reason to keep doing something. What else can we do? So being able to kind of walk people through that process and kind of open their, their mind to the possibilities that are available is something I really like.

0:35:07 - Rachel Murray Well, now I want to hear an example. Do you have like a shining example of something? Hmm, do I have a shining example? This was an off script question.

0:35:18 - Amma Marfo No, that's fair, I like these. So when I was working at a manual college, when I got there, one of the things that was under the purview of my position was a ticketed events program. So we would buy blocks of tickets to Red Sox games, movies, boston Ballet, things like that, and the goal was to open up those possibilities to students that might not be able to afford them at full price, even if there was like a student discount if they're just walk up to the, to the box office. And the process at the time when I got there was like I would have a block of tickets in my office and, let's say, they would go on sale Wednesday at noon. People would have to come to my office, be in line like within the first 30 to 50 people, depending on what the event was, and have the money with them.

And in addition to just being inefficient and in addition to just being like physically uncomfortable, like especially on like Red Sox Yankees tickets days, like I would try to leave my office to do something else at like 945 in the morning and like 10 people would be like is it time yet? And I'm like it is it, I just hang on. So like I kind of would feel like trapped in my office on those days or like walk out of my office to do something. It's like it's not for tickets, I just have to make copies like physically uncomfortable. So there were pieces of that. But also like from like an equity perspective, I was thinking like who has the opportunity to come here and sit from 930 in the morning until students who don't feel as though it's okay to burn like two and a half hours, possibly skipping classes, students that are not going to be able to go to school?

So we started thinking about how can we build this out in a way that more people have access, and we thought about a lot of different ways, like do we move it from my office to the union where more people are likely to be passing through? Do we switch up the days where it happened so it's not the same time every single day or every single time that we do it? Should we have an online option? Should that online option accept that? How do we like set up a waitlist if tickets become available? So what we ended up doing was a combination of all those things where you reserve the ticket on Eventbrite and then came to the office to pay for it and then, after a certain point, if you didn't claim that reservation, eventbrite automatically generated a waitlist so that we can go to people later. If you weren't on campus but you had five minutes to reserve it online, at home you could do that.

It gave us a little bit more flexibility Again, not just in, like someone having to like be there at that time to do it, but also those who maybe didn't have the access or the capacity to be able to be there on that day did still have access to those things. So I was really pleased with kind of the flexibility that it gave us to widen the scope of who got to participate in these events. Love it speaks to my Virgo heart, virgo too.

0:38:02 - Rachel Murray So I was getting that from you. I was getting that from you. There it is Felicia's secretly a Virgo Somehow. She was born in February, but I think you're secretly a Virgo somehow.

0:38:22 - Amma Marfo It must be in there somewhere yeah.

0:38:24 - Felicia Jadczak You know, I still have to like. We did an activity early in the pandemic where we did like star charts and things like that. It was a thing that happened and I need to find mine, because I need to figure out like am I a Virgo rising? Or like what happened here? Yes, I've got a lot of Virgo sensibilities and this little equidious being might be in there somewhere.

I actually had a quick follow question on this whole topic, if you don't mind. I think I've been thinking a lot about over the last couple of years and do you think that creativity, like can be taught? Because I definitely. I feel that you can lose creativity or, like, you lose your creative juices. So curious, like, what your thoughts are on that process.

0:39:08 - Amma Marfo I do. I do think that it can be taught. I think it the way that I convey it to people is that there are kind of a set of capacities that most folks have or can develop. So some of that is access to individuals, so being able to find people that you can collaborate with, that think a little bit differently from you. Some of that is having, like, mentors or people in higher levels of influence give you permission to do things off the beaten path. But there are also things like being willing to look a lot of different places for information. So, as an example, like when I was first starting to work with students on how they could expand, how they went about things. There's some educational theory that covers that, but some of that was in business books, some of that was at tech events. So I was going to tech events to kind of learn things and being willing to be the type of person. That's like. I read this article. I want to try that thing. I heard this on a podcast. Can I learn more?

That's a creative capacity, staying determined, just being the kind of person that will stick with a tough problem. That can be valuable for creativity. So I think, even if a lot of people would, at first glance, say no, I'm not creative when asked, asking them like all right, well, what about these pieces? Like, are you willing to ask a question where maybe no one else is willing to ask a question? Or be the person in a meeting to say, like, what if we did this? Or why can't we do this? That's a creative capacity and if you pull all of those things together, odds are you'd actually be pretty good at creative enterprises if you chose to put those capacities to work in a certain way. So yeah, I do think it can be taught and I do think most people have some combination of those trait, skills, abilities to be able to make it happen.

0:40:42 - Felicia Jadczak Hey, I agree and I also feel like it's definitely it takes time, because I'm somebody who feels like they lost all their creativity.

0:40:50 - Rachel Murray Are you kidding me? You're a business owner.

0:40:53 - Felicia Jadczak You know I spend all my brain energy on like business stuff and, you know, solving the world's problems and DEI related issues, and so I've been actively working on just taking art classes well, pottery classes, really the last year or so and let me tell you, it is like humbling, because I would have described myself as a very creative person before and I was like super in art and like all the stuff when I was younger and like in the college and after, and now I'm like what color do I paint this misshapen thing that came from my hand and I look over at like the person who literally just started it and they're like creating this amazingly beautiful thing that has like all this intricate stuff.

And I'm like, did you think of that or did you? Were you like me and like, come up with this on Pinterest? No creativity, jesus left. So what I've learned is that it's like it's a work in progress because you have to do it in order to like get it going and it's yeah, it's been a whole process that I've been really thinking a lot about.

0:41:57 - Amma Marfo Well, and it's interesting to me because when I talk to people about what, when I first asked the question like, do you identify as creative, and someone says no, it's extremely common for them to explain something art related that they're not good at. It's fascinating to me that this conflation of creative creativity and artistry has kind of pulled people out there.

Like I can't draw a circle at all the people. I draw stick figures and that has been the bucket that we've put creativity in. And I push it further than that. I'm like did you feed yourself this week without grocery shopping or did you feed yourself with your creativity? And that did you get yourself dressed in a way that like feels cohesive even though nothing's clean, that counts. All of those things can can count. Like even we're in November right now as we record this and I am getting ready for I think it's like the fourth annual cranz to graham. So Pumpkin gets a lot of hype in October and like it's fine, but I love cranberries and I don't feel like they're sufficiently appreciated, so I do like a bunch of cranberry recipes in November. And and what? Cranz to graham.

Cranz to graham. Cranz to graham is like the ongoing Hashtag and that each year has like a specific one, and this year's is only crans. Oh, but I'll like make a bunch of things like with cranberries and I'm like I just did these lemon cranberry muffins. I found a like granola bar recipe for like cranberries and it's.

It's not something that most people would think of when you think about Creativity, but it's just like here's a fruit that floats and nobody thinks about 11 months out of the year and I am Celebrating them and like that is a creative endeavor and, like in some years, like honestly 2020. I was like I think that's the only thing I did well this year. It's like me very thing, but it's so fun and so silly. And then, as I've come to do it, like people in October Like are you doing cranz to graham this year? And then like they'll send me pictures of things that they found that have cranberry in them. So it's become like this really nice communal experience and Most of the time when you're asking somebody if they're creative, they don't think about things like that.

But, of course that counts. Why wouldn't it?

0:44:09 - Felicia Jadczak I just thank you. This is very helpful to be reminded of. I appreciate that and love the cranberry focus, because that's my favorite thing During holidays is cramber. Yes, yes.

0:44:19 - Amma Marfo Oh, we have a lot of the people are like what do you do with it? I was like, let me tell you.

0:44:24 - Rachel Murray You know that is kind of our like logo color is kind of cranberry. So maybe we need to like have a maybe to get it on this cranz to graham situation.

0:44:33 - Amma Marfo I hope you do.

0:44:34 - Rachel Murray I, I hope, yeah, and I think I also will say thank you so much, alma, for saying this, because Felicia is so creative it as wild that she's saying that she is it like Not only does she co-run a business, that it requires a ton of creativity for many reasons. But, also in her spare time. She and her husband did started porch fest in their town and Ran that and like went to the arts committee and like did all of that and that's I know that's a massive creative act, Seriously we even talking about.

So what if you can't perfectly shape a bowl? All about me.

0:45:13 - Felicia Jadczak It's about you. I appreciate it because it's important, because I, yeah, like I feel like I just put on a journey right now that the Maybe one on with me. But, yeah, I think it's important, though, to remind ourselves like there are other aspects of you know, being creative. And but I do still go back to what I was saying earlier and why I asked that question, which is, I do think you can like lose it, and maybe it's not even lose it, but lose the ability to like appreciate those areas where we are creative without, yeah, into like that, that label or that box.

0:45:46 - Amma Marfo So, yeah, and you can have seasons of life where you tap into it less and even then, I don't think you lose it. I think it's still there. I think it's just a matter of finding a Venue for it or like a portal to express it, because I know, like for me, probably around 2014, I was just at a point in work where I was burnt, like I was doing a lot of the same thing every day. It wasn't to say I wasn't tapping into creativity, but none of it felt particularly interesting. And that's when I started sketch writing because I was like I need something to do that is Totally different, that I don't do on a regular basis, with people who I don't already know Like just break out in so many different ways and it was so much fun and I love the people that I met. I love the end product that we were able to produce and, yeah, like when you kind of sense it, waiting, figuring out ways to kind of tap back into it can can get you to continue moving.

0:46:37 - Felicia Jadczak It's like related, yet completely Related at all. I think. Amazing Question before we had like a couple more to get through. But have you ever done sketch comedy like improv?

0:46:47 - Amma Marfo for your thoughts on that, sure so. There's sketch comedy that is for the most part like Well, and that's okay, so, yeah. So there's sketch comedy which is for the most part like written and then performed. There's improv, which is like unscripted and pretty spontaneous, and then there's stand-up. I have done all three. I Would say, on my continue of like things that I enjoy the most. I enjoy stand-up and do a lot of it. I really like writing sketch, but I don't much care to perform sketch because I don't, I don't identify as an actor. So I have done sketch that I've written and then other people put it up and I love that. Improv, I think, is probably the least attractive to me. I recognize that it's immensely valuable. I have so many friends that do it and love it, but I don't have the Constitution for the spontaneity of it. It's extremely difficult.

0:47:39 - Felicia Jadczak That's why Rachel shaking her head. Now, yeah, but from a from a performing perspective, not an audience.

0:47:48 - Rachel Murray Oh no, no, for me it is actually both. I want to make that very clear.

0:47:54 - Amma Marfo It's a very common perspective. I want to say, at minimum, you are not alone in that.

0:47:59 - Rachel Murray I feel a little alone in the circles that I run in. People like why wouldn't you want to pay seven dollars to watch people Make up things spontaneously? And 90% of it would be terrible.

0:48:09 - Amma Marfo So and I'll also say this is like when it is done. Well, yes, it's Transcendent, and I don't use that word lightly like and I've seen some people who are wonderful at it do it live. Jason Manzuk is, who a lot of us know for Brooklyn 99 or the good place.

I got to see him do it live at UCB. It was one of the most amazing things I've ever seen. John Gabriel same thing, nicole buyers this year's minute. Like there are people who are next level amazing at it and I love that. But you're right, when it's not good, it is very, very difficult to get through to endure amazing.

0:48:43 - Rachel Murray When it's bad, it's really terrible, right and I will say I am a huge Jason Manzuk is fan. I listened to how did this get made. It is my favorite podcast and it is largely because of his brilliance.

0:48:56 - Amma Marfo Quick podcast recommendation. If you did, you listen to Thirst Aid kit when it was either on slate or Buzzfeed.

0:49:02 - Rachel Murray No, so Thirst.

0:49:03 - Amma Marfo Aid kit. There's just in general is a podcast about, like adult women having crushes, which is Extremely my jam like that is who I am as a person and they have an episode called Jason and Jason again, that is split between their crushes on Jason Sudeikis and Jason Manzuk is, and it is one of my favorite episodes, so please go listen to it. It's excellent.

0:49:24 - Felicia Jadczak Tonight is great that is happening.

0:49:26 - Amma Marfo Yeah, I will. I will send you a link after this. It is so important to me that you listen to this because it's wonderful, the premise of the podcast as a whole, like I am deeply sad that it does not exist in, like the Pedro Pascal, jeremy, alan White era, because I think they would have so much to talk about it. Yeah, it's sadly defunct, but wonderful, wonderful show.

0:49:47 - Rachel Murray It should be brought back by Phoebe Robinson, because her Instagram is like oh yes, the thirsty Thursday.

0:49:54 - Amma Marfo Yeah Right, I get set the I mean today's Thursday. I have to see who she put up. But I regularly get set those. It's like have you seen this? I'm like yes, I have. Let me let me also say this just publicly, because I have a venue and a microphone Sending people memes or videos that they have already seen, never apologized for it. Sending somebody something that they would enjoy is an act of love, and I appreciate every single time I get it, even though I got like, for an example, the Pedro Pascal is Easter eggs like slides.

I got those probably like 12 to 20 times on Easter and I enjoyed it every single time. So do not ever apologize for sending something. Somebody sending something to somebody that you know they would love. That is how we show love to each other. Please keep doing it. Yes, even if you think they've seen it?

0:50:39 - Felicia Jadczak I'm your language, you know, like what your crushes are, so we can start sending you stuff, because I'll tell you, yes, the Inclusion Geeks. I don't even know this is true, but for me and Rachel at least, keanu Reeves mass great, one corporate crush on Keanu Reeves? Yeah, personally, for many, many, many years, one of my very good friends, uni, and I had what we called JGL Fridays, which was an appreciation of Joseph Gordon. Love it, I'm great. And so right now Friday, we would send it and we took to mark turn so we would send each other a picture, a video, whatever of JGL. And right now I will say, because my husband reminds me of him, I'm like real big into Stanley Tucci, because also his like videos are ridiculous where he's cooking and he always so.

0:51:26 - Amma Marfo I just read his memoir earlier this year, so crush worthy. You've got a great list. I'll actually show it. We are in a video meeting at the moment so I will show you to the represented on my water bottle right now. There are more, but there are two here, so I'm video right. This one says I hope Oscar Isaac is having a good day and they make it in a couple different ones. So like I got my friend that I hope Brendan Fraser is having a good day, I gave it to her.

There's a take-away TT. There's obviously a Pedro Pascal, and then the other one is someone made at Pedro Pascal the Ares tour sticker. So and I'm not like a what a stickers on things person I have a huge Envelope of them in my desk because I have a lot of anxiety about sticking them to things and like, literally last week I was like be a grown-up, just Stand for something on your water bottle. Actually, I have a she geeks out one and it's gonna go like here. But yeah, I was like just no, stand for something, put it on there. So these are like newly adhered to this, but those are the two right now. And then actually a friend made buttons for me and I have this one next to my desk. It is Steven Stamco's. He is the captain of the Tampa Bay Lightning, my hockey team. Um, so we do a lot of crushing over here.

0:52:44 - Rachel Murray I love that. I feel like we could literally just have a side podcast which is just the crushes, like, maybe we just bring it back, maybe it's just us because like, yeah, I have a great deal that we haven't even touched upon, the Ben Affleck of it all, like we don't have time, but I've got things to say can I have like one, one moment that I've recently, which is that I have this have you seen the Tom Holland lip sync Of umbrella?

0:53:12 - Amma Marfo okay. So the thing about the Tom Holland lip sync from umbrella is this is where I learned how many people did not know that he had played Billy Elliot on stage. We're like, how could he dance? And I was like he used to be his job. So like yes, I've seen it, I love it and like I just. But you can just dance.

0:53:35 - Rachel Murray He did musical dance like Billy Elliot right.

0:53:40 - Felicia Jadczak Which I don't know if you, if you've come more recently to this Amazingness. That is that clip. So it's like it's sort of like an internet meme now, where it's basically like anytime it shows up, people are like well, whenever it shows up, you have to repost it, because it's just.

0:53:53 - Rachel Murray And you know how I found out about it is through Lila's Twitter, who's someone that we're gonna be Podcasting with in future, who I was researching, and I was like looking at her Twitter and it was like, if you know, you know, and I was like I don't know.

0:54:10 - Amma Marfo Yeah, no, it was. It was a big, big moment. And it's funny to me that he's like I don't understand, but why it's such a big deal, and I'm like, yes, you do, come on.

0:54:19 - Rachel Murray Yes, you do, you move your body like that, sir.

0:54:24 - Amma Marfo Like you know, smacking the water like, come on Like you knew Exactly, and there have been so many great lip sync battle moments. But that was just another level.

0:54:35 - Felicia Jadczak That was literally the best thing is you watch the whole episode. Zendaya does it before him and she doesn't. And she actually like, feels it and in any other lip sync battle she would have won hands down. Yeah, one of the favorite pieces in like his clip is the moment where you can see on her face where she's just like, oh damn, I lost. Yeah.

0:54:54 - Amma Marfo Yeah and yeah, like, yeah. If any other instance, like prior dancing with the stars winner, I believe, zendaya, like if she was up against anybody else, yeah, and then just and especially like once the rain hits, you're like that's it and valiant effort, but you have been out perform.

0:55:10 - Rachel Murray Yeah, yeah, nice try with the singing in the rain business. Oh. I see where you're going with this. Yeah, this is what's happening.

0:55:17 - Felicia Jadczak We need to do a week, I guess, episode just on Exploring all this further.

0:55:22 - Amma Marfo I would fully come back for that.

0:55:25 - Rachel Murray I love this. Let's make it happen. I love this. We we have like just a few minutes left.

0:55:33 - Amma Marfo I've loved the journey with you both.

0:55:34 - Rachel Murray I really have. I'm like should we just skip to the fun questions at this point.

0:55:40 - Felicia Jadczak I. I think let's get to some fun questions.

0:55:44 - Rachel Murray That's all right.

0:55:45 - Felicia Jadczak Yeah.

0:55:46 - Rachel Murray Do you want to go for a break?

0:55:49 - Felicia Jadczak No, you do it, you do it, you start. Well, I think we may have asked you this when you came for our live event back in, whenever that was March, june, who knows what time is but what do you like to geek out about? That's not related to something that we've already talked about.

0:56:05 - Amma Marfo Hmm, mary, I'm a bookish person, so anytime someone's like, where are you reading, I love that. So I love, like love. And it's funny because I watch a lot of TV and I feel like I also then have to clarify like I also read books. I feel like we're past that as a society where we're not judging people for not reading, but I do read and yeah, I do. I really I love TV, I love animation in particular, like love cartoons. So I will talk to people about cartoons all the time.

0:56:31 - Rachel Murray What are you watching for the animation right? There's a lot of good stuff.

0:56:34 - Amma Marfo So I just finished this morning the newest season of Star Trek, lower Decks, which is their like adult animated Star.

0:56:41 - Rachel Murray Trek.

0:56:42 - Amma Marfo It's so good Like you can kind of know the Star Trek Lower and still enjoy it. I'm like I know enough about Star Trek to enjoy it and it's great. Futurama is an all-time favorite. I'm always at some stage of rewatching or watching Bob's Burgers. Archer just finished and I'm very sad to see it go.

0:57:02 - Rachel Murray Yeah.

0:57:03 - Amma Marfo Yeah, there's, the Boondocks is a great one and I know they've toyed with bringing that one back a second time. I'm ready whenever they get there. But yeah, love, love, love, love cartoons.

0:57:13 - Rachel Murray We live in a golden age we do, actually.

0:57:17 - Amma Marfo last thing on Crush is, I promise I was at a show over the weekend where somehow we got into like cartoon crushes because one of the comedians on the show had mentioned having a crush on adult Simba from the Lion King. So then the host came back up and said that he as a kid had had a crush on Robin Hood from the animated Robin Hood, which, genuinely, who didn't? So yeah, so.

I went up after he went up and said if you have had a crush on Robin Hood, animated Fox which again everybody did there's a movie that came out and it's based on a series of kids books called the Bad Guys, and they're Mr Wolf.

0:58:00 - Rachel Murray Pleasure taking notes.

0:58:04 - Felicia Jadczak Like. I'm like, obviously I need this in my life ASAP. Do I need to go in my calls after this podcast? No, I'm going to cancel it and watch all these things.

0:58:12 - Amma Marfo Mr Wolf from the Bad Guys, and I think it's on Netflix now. But just hot cartoon animal. We haven't touched that level in a while.

0:58:20 - Felicia Jadczak Voice by Sam Rockwell, who it does not hurt, yeah, so. He'll be part of it. Yeah, I feel like Go ahead.

0:58:29 - Rachel Murray I was going to say I feel like we have several new names for the title of this podcast episode.

0:58:38 - Felicia Jadczak So I'm sorry, but what are you reading right now?

0:58:43 - Amma Marfo So I just finished Anne of Avonlea, which is the second Anne of Green Gables book.

I had not previously read the Anne of Green Gables books, which, having been born in Canada, felt blasphemous. So I was like this is the year we fixed that and I'm getting ready to read a book called like. It's on my Kindle and I'm going to start it today when I have to get on the train. It's called Freaks, leaks and Dawson's Creek and it's about seven shows that change the face of like teenagers on television. So Freaks and Geeks is there, glee is there, dawson's Creek, of course, friday Night Lights. So I'm very excited to read that.

And then there's another book called Burn it Down by Maureen Ryan about like power differentials in Hollywood. So it goes a little bit into the Weinstein scandal and things that have happened based on race and prepared to be furious the whole time through. But Mo has done wonderful reporting on it, probably going back like five or six years. So I'm excited to see like the book, like the feature length of that reporting, kind of come into fruition from a writing perspective.

0:59:46 - Felicia Jadczak These are so good, these are so good it's mining as we get, at least I know. Rachel lives in paradise, but here in Western Massachusetts yesterday it snowed, so I'm like, I'm ready to like conquer down, so this is perfect, I'm yes curl up with a book and some good TV and some swoonworthy cartoons Like man.

1:00:07 - Amma Marfo What do you need till spring? Nothing else, all right.

1:00:12 - Rachel Murray One. I want to give our listeners some practical advice. Great, so what's the best advice you've ever received and who gave it to you?

1:00:23 - Amma Marfo if you want to share, so I think for a long time, just between kind of being first generation North American and being socialized as a woman and just like being very anxious, there was a lot of like needing things to be put in the right spot and I kind of attacked everything where it's like you try it once and you should be perfect at it if possible and a lot of things that were just like really regimented and didn't really have a whole lot of space for creativity, frankly.

And I think that it is an achievement in some ways to kind of gotten to a space where I appreciate creativity and spontaneity so much, because I was not built that way and it is still difficult to do sometimes. And then even going into comedy, the first couple of years it was kind of more of a process than an experience. And I read this book from a comedian that actually has roots in Boston named Josh Gondelman. The book is called Nice Try. He is among the nicest humans you will ever meet. He used to write for last week with John Oliver, wrote for Jesus and Marrow, but started stand up in Boston.

And there's a chapter in his book where he talks about having come up in comedy and Mike Kaplan, another comedian, always telling him, rather than break a leg or good luck before his sets, have fun. And that changed a lot of things for me, not just in comedy but in general, because I think, like we're not here for a long time, we hope to be here for a good time and like enjoy what it is that you're doing and like, if you're doing things that maybe you need to do that you don't enjoy, find space to find things that you can enjoy in them or find ways to have fun outside of it. And it changed the way that certainly I think about comedy, but also about who I choose to work with, what I choose to work on, being able to find space for that. It is changed the way I am as a person, to get that reminder in the moment that I got it.

1:02:14 - Rachel Murray Oh, mike drop, I feel like that's such a beautiful place to end it. That was gorgeous, and I so agree with you, and I think the one gift that this wild pandemic has given us is perspective on how short time is, and I think that that is such a great message. Have fun, yeah Well, thank you so much. I'm so appreciate your time.

1:02:39 - Amma Marfo This has been so fun, a little bit silly, occasionally insightful. I gosh, this has been great.

1:02:46 - Rachel Murray All around.

1:02:46 - Felicia Jadczak This is what we aim for. I would say, your own podcast interview, the review. I mean I agree, I would say more than we should only get a lot insightful. But yes, we'll have to have you back and talk more about crushes, because I'm like I got so much to say and I want to hear all of yours. So we'll figure that out.

1:03:02 - Amma Marfo But genuinely, anytime you want, it's very well.

1:03:07 - Felicia Jadczak If people want to find out more, learn more about you all the stuff that we talked about. Where it's the best place for people to check you out?

1:03:13 - Amma Marfo So my website has all the things. It's got my portfolio for content, design and UX writing. It's got info on my comedy. I'm also on Instagram and YouTube those tend to be the more silly places and then I'm on LinkedIn so you can come find me, follow me there. But yeah, all, all parts of me are represented across those platforms.

1:03:35 - Rachel Murray Love it, yeah Well, thank you so much, alma.

1:03:38 - Felicia Jadczak My pleasure. Thank you. We got to do that again, okay, so it's really silly before, during, after. But if you want to hit rewind, maybe totally understand. It was a great conversation. You can find Alma and all of her incredible work in the show notes and maybe stay tuned for another spin off podcast. I don't know, but all I can tell you is I was doing a lot of research this past weekend, listening to past episodes of Thirst Aid and, as I showed you all briefly in the intro, I've been taking copious notes on celebrity crushes. So I'm here for it. We'll see.

1:04:11 - Rachel Murray Maybe we do the like a poll, maybe we'll set up like a little poll and then you can like, we can get people to say, if they want us to like, bring back Thirst Aid, but with us and Alma and other surprise guests. I see you, jason Monsuchus.

1:04:26 - Felicia Jadczak Anyway we keep speaking it. So the numbers it's going to happen someday. Right, it's like the secret.

1:04:34 - Rachel Murray Good stuff. Well, thank you so much for listening. Please don't forget to rate, share and subscribe. It makes a huge difference in the reach of this podcast and, by extension, this work. And please don't forget to visit us on YouTube, instagram and LinkedIn to stay up to all sorry, to stay up to date on all the things Inclusion Geeks and more, and maybe crushes and all of it. Bye, bye, bye.

Transcribed by https://podium.page