“Magical Girl” Journeys and Filmmaking with Jumai Yusuf

[00:00:05] Felicia: Hi, and welcome to the She Geeks Out podcast presented by Inclusion Geeks. We geek out about workplace inclusion and talk with brilliant humans doing great work to make the world a better and brighter place. I'm Felicia.

[00:00:18] Rachel: And I'm Rachel, and I think it's time we get into it before we get to our lovely guest. Felicia, what's up?

[00:00:25] Felicia: Oh my gosh, there's always so much happening Rachel, but I feel like the theme for you and me at least right now is networking, because we've been doing a lot of it. So yeah, I was just in New Hampshire for the better part of a week. In this really cool program, which I would love to tell you about if you're up for it.

[00:00:42] Felicia: And then I would love to hear about your networking too. So for anyone who does not know, we are a certified woman owned business because we are women and we own our business. And there is a really cool organization that we are part of that actually certifies us and they're called WBENC or the woman's Business Enterprise National Council, which is quite a mouthful, so we will just say WBENC from here on out. They are super cool. They are a national group. They have people all over and they support companies just like ours that are started and run by women. They do a ton of different programs. They're actually the ones who sponsored and held the conference that we were exhibitors at earlier this year for anyone who was listening back then, whenever that was, March timeframe. So we were out in Colorado at their conference, and one of the programs that they offer is a continuing education program for women executives. And so I applied for this program and I got in. I was able to spend the week with about 54 or 55 other women in lovely New Hampshire at Dartmouth College at their Tuck School of Business. It was really cool because I went to business school as you know, and it was like a little.

[00:01:48] Rachel: Brag.

[00:01:49] Felicia: Glimpse back into it. Not a brag. It should be like a tear rolling down your cheek for all the money I spent. But actually what I will say is that they always told us at business school that it's all about the network and your network is the most important thing.

[00:02:04] Felicia: And that's what I think I got out of my business school experience. And that's what I got out of this too. Like it was awesome. We were at Tuck. It was great. Tuck was my top choice for business Schools, actually, when I was applying back in the day, I did not get in. My scores were not high enough for them.

[00:02:19] Rachel: So this was like a little revenge. 

[00:02:21] Felicia: Oh, it was great. I walked around and I was like, ah, I'm here now.

[00:02:27] Rachel: Thought you weren't gonna see me around here. Surprise!

[00:02:30] Felicia: It was, you know, it's October in New Hampshire. The leaves were beautiful. It was absolutely gorgeous, but it was really cool because I've talked about this with a couple other people, not with you yet. One of the most just valuable things, I think, beyond just being there and learning and hearing from professors and speakers and other people, was just the, I don't even know if comfort is the right word, but the relief of being in a room with people who understand.

[00:02:58] Felicia: Just the mental and emotional lowering of the weight of being like, oh, we have all had very similar, if not the exact same experiences, struggles, wins, challenges, and people here get it in a way that like maybe a lot of other people don't. Now I know you and I obviously have that with each other, which is awesome.

[00:03:22] Felicia: But the sort of general world, it's sometimes I have to explain myself or have to tell you about this thing and people don't always get it. But it was just such a mental relief to be in that space. And just to be supported by people who are like, you got this, you can do it. We're going to help. We're going to do this together. And we have also experienced the bullshit together too. So that's what I was doing this past week. It was really great.

[00:03:46] Rachel: Oh, I'm so glad that you had such a positive experience in there. Yeah. You know, we talk a lot about the virtual versus the in person. course we do so much virtually, but, you kind of really can't beat that in person

[00:03:57] Felicia: You really can't. And you know me, I'm the first person to be like, you can have a great experience virtually too, which I still hold as being true. It's just different. It's just going to be different. And I think the big thing for me was the in person stuff really facilitates the connections that otherwise you really just either have to overly create opportunities or you have to really seek it out in a very proactive manner. Some of the most valuable takeaways I had were because I sat next to someone a couple days in a row or I had lunch with somebody or I bumped into someone in line waiting for something or I had some amazing discussions with people because we were standing next to each other on a balcony waiting to go inside somewhere.

[00:04:43] Felicia: Right. That's the kind of thing that you just cannot. It's really hard to recreate that virtually. I will say a fresh and renewed support of hybrid experiences.

[00:04:55] Rachel: Yeah. I agree with that. As you mentioned, I went to the culture summit that was here in San Diego while you were in lovely leaf peeping area. And it was. It's very restorative to have that experience. And so for me, the people that I was surrounded by were other people that care deeply about work culture.

[00:05:16] Rachel: What I thought was really interesting as I was the only one that referred to themselves as sort of a DEI consultancy training company. Actually, most of the people there actually worked for companies, much fewer consultants, actually.

[00:05:28] Felicia: interesting.

[00:05:29] Rachel: It is interesting.

[00:05:30] Rachel: And I was thinking about how I think just because of where folks are right now, maybe there wasn't the kind of budget that there would have been before for a lot of consultancy. So I felt really lucky to be there. And I got to connect with a lot of folks that basically want to make work suck less, like literally, like, you 

[00:05:47] Felicia: The dream. 

[00:05:48] Rachel: the dream, you know, and talking about a lot of folks talked about the remote versus hybrid versus in person experience, talked about what you just said, you can have that virtual work environment, but having those touch points in person to have that connection, to me, it seems like, and it sounds like for you as well, it's the ideal rather than forcing people to come in arbitrarily where there isn't that clarity on like, why are people coming in?

[00:06:15] Rachel: You know?

[00:06:16] Felicia: Well, and I'll also add, it helps a lot when it's easy to come together. This program I was at was supported by WBENC and also their corporate sponsor, shout out, was IBM. They invested a lot of money in it. And it was appreciated because it can be very challenging to come together.

[00:06:34] Felicia: Cause you know, it's like, how do you get there? Where are you going to stay? How are you going to pay for it? Is there a budget? Did you plan for this? And if you don't have that all ready to go, it can be a no. And so just being able to break down that barrier from a financial support standpoint can be really helpful too.

[00:06:49] Felicia: So that's the other thing I think a lot of times comes up. We're having this whole conversation at a workforce level around returning to office and there's a big push to get people back into the office. A lot of conversation that's coming out of that is like, well, okay, but time and money, right?

[00:07:04] Felicia: So there's commute times, and there's the cost of my time. And then there's also the actual cost to go to the office because it's gas, it's public transportation pass, it's lunch.

[00:07:17] Rachel: Yeah.

[00:07:18] Felicia: It's coffee. It's stuff that you wouldn't buy normally if you were working from home.

[00:07:22] Rachel: Yeah, it's funny. One of the guys was talking about how you do all of this, you get into the office, and then you're literally just sitting in a cubicle on Zoom, next to someone else who was sitting in a cubicle on Zoom. Like, what is happening? That is not a good use case for RTO.

[00:07:37] Rachel: So, there is still so much desire and interest in making workplaces work for everyone. And I know this is just such a fraught time for everyone. The reality is we are still doing the things we have to do the things. You know, until we get universal basic income, this is just our world. So if we're going to live in it, let's do our best to make it, well, suck less like, uh, the people say.

[00:08:06] Felicia: Good motto. Yeah, I like it. Let's make things suck less.

[00:08:09] Rachel: Yeah. So who are we? Yeah. Who are we talking? Who,

[00:08:12] Felicia: was like, there's no good bridge, but in that spirit, I guess, um,

[00:08:15] Rachel: make podcasts suck 

[00:08:18] Felicia: loss, uh, let's talk about our guests at our show today. So today's guest is Jumai Yusuf. She's a director and multidisciplinary storyteller, passionate about combining her love of science and art through film. As a Muslim Nigerian immigrant, she focuses on bringing underrepresented stories to the screen, especially in genres like sci fi, fantasy, and horror.

[00:08:40] Felicia: She is a fellow in the inaugural Sundance Institute and Walt Disney Muslim Artist Fellowship Program with her script Cocoa Doll selected for the Black List's Muslim List and the WScripted Cannes screenplay list. Jumai's animated short SIMULACRA won a Student Academy Award, and she was chosen for the inaugural Television Screenwriting Lab for Black Muslim Writers.

[00:09:03] Felicia: An avid fan of anime, comic conventions, and cosplay, Jumai continues to explore new ways to merge culture and creativity in her work. She also worked on Ramadan America, which is how we met. And for any listeners who've been following us for the past couple of months, we had been doing a whole little theme here. So Jumai is another person who was involved in that really great project.

[00:09:24] Rachel: Yay. Yeah. And I think she might be our last one, but who knows? Who knows what will happen in future from Ramadan America. We love talking with all the folks that worked on that. But before we welcome Jumai, I want to share an exciting resource with you. Did you know that we offer a fantastic newsletter?

[00:09:41] Rachel: Packed with the latest news insights and resources on workplace inclusion. We do. It's only the best source for learning how to support a truly fair and inclusive work environment. So don't miss out. Sign up today at inclusiongeeks. com forward slash newsletter to stay informed and inspired.

[00:10:00] Felicia: Welcome to the show, Jumai.

[00:10:01] Rachel: Yay. 

[00:10:04] Felicia: Welcome Jumai. So let's get into it. So happy to have you here today with us.

[00:10:13] Jumai: Happy to be here.

[00:10:14] Felicia: So you are a writer, a director, and you've also directed many different shorts. You also have a BA in neurobiology from Harvard, like no big deal. And if that wasn't enough, you have an MFA from USC, also no big deal. I would just love to have you start us off with telling us how did you get to where you are today?

[00:10:35] Felicia: Because, wow, first of all, um, what's your origin story?

[00:10:40] Jumai: Yeah, you know, thank you so much for asking that question. I know that my resume can sometimes seem confusing to folks.

[00:10:50] Felicia: I wouldn't say confusing, I say impressive.

[00:10:53] Rachel: Ditto. Ditto.

[00:10:56] Felicia: a little bit.

[00:10:57] Jumai: Yeah, so to go way, way back to the origin, I was born in Nigeria, immigrated to the US when I was like two years old and moved around a little bit and stayed mostly in Massachusetts where I landed and where my family, my parents still live today. And so I went to college close to home, you might say, in state. And growing up, I was always interested and curious in the arts, but I jumped around to different art forms and I wound up being huge theater kid. So when I was studying in school, I really liked science, thought neurobiology sounded fun, you know? And so I went to college with that, but I still continued being a theater kid and doing that as an extracurricular.

[00:11:43] Jumai: Especially at Harvard that has a connection with the American Repertory Theater, which is sort of like a Broadway feeder, where it was run by Diane Paulus. So I was there when Sara Bareilles came and developed Waitress, for example. Yeah, very cool.

[00:11:59] Felicia: Also, I just have to, since we jumped in, I just have to say I was like dying laughing inside when you described Harvard as close to home, like state school. Love that.

[00:12:08] Jumai: You know, I don't think my parents would have been too excited if I moved to California right away, but I was going to move to California eventually. So I did a lot of undergraduate theater, like internet, the ART and stuff like that. And I really discovered film when I took a film course for the very first time, like ever in life, about halfway through college.

[00:12:31] Jumai: And doing that film course really opened my eyes to like the possibility of the medium. I was like, Oh, you can just go on location, and things like that. So I had a really fun time. And that sort of started my shift from being somebody who was really into theater, morphing into wanting to direct film.

[00:12:50] Jumai: And of course I was still doing my degree the whole time and I was not going to change degrees. I was like, I'm too far gone. Um, so I used, for example, my senior year, I took a neuroscience fiction course where I was able to make a short film as my final project, for example, and I worked on a web series is a club with a bunch of my friends.

[00:13:11] Jumai: So I started to get a film education on our own. And then I graduated and I was like, Hey, parents, you know, I never wanted to be a doctor. Don't really want to do the science research thing. So I want to go to film school.

[00:13:26] Felicia: What I just have to know like what was their reaction to that because

[00:13:30] Jumai: Yeah, you know,

[00:13:31] Felicia: imagine.

[00:13:32] Jumai: I have to say that I'm honestly so glad that I have such supportive parents because, you know, the immigrant parent thing that really could have gone in a lot of directions. But, first of all, I said, I will apply to film school to move out to LA and not just go out there without a job or anything, because that's something, of course they would be really afraid of.

[00:13:54] Jumai: And so what happened was I used our house to make a couple of short films and it really included my entire family into the filmmaking process and got them so excited. My mom was hiking through the trees in our backyard with us for the filming and driving us around and we took over our entire house.

[00:14:17] Jumai: So now they say that they want to be my managers and executive producers and I'm like, nah.

[00:14:22] Felicia: they went from being like, we're sending you to Harvard, and then they're like, wait, we're actually going to manage your film

[00:14:28] Jumai: Yeah, I'm like, you know, that's not really what a manager does, but sure. So they're very, very supportive, which I'm so, so happy for. 

[00:14:36] Rachel: So you're in California now.

[00:14:38] Jumai: I am. Yeah. So I made those short films, in my hometown, use those to apply to film school. And then that's how I got into USC and I moved out to LA in 2018 and to start my MFA.

[00:14:50] Rachel: Nice. And so your parents are still in Massachusetts.

[00:14:52] Jumai: Yes. They are.

[00:14:53] Rachel: Okay. So they're, they're managing you from afar.

[00:14:57] Jumai: Yeah.

[00:14:58] Rachel: emotionally managing you.

[00:15:00] Jumai: I guess so. To be fair, my mom, you know, I just started an LLC and my mom is part of that LLC because she is an accountant and you can always use an accountant, right?

[00:15:12] Felicia: Please keep it in the

[00:15:13] Jumai: Oh yeah. I'm like, please do help. So yeah.

[00:15:16] Rachel: No one's going to be better about your funds and your money than your parents will be, that is for sure.

[00:15:23] Jumai: for sure.

[00:15:23] Rachel: I love that, I love that. Well, I'm actually in San Diego, so, uh, West Coast, Best Coast, you know.

[00:15:30] Jumai: Nice.

[00:15:31] Felicia: Sure.

[00:15:31] Rachel: Felicia agrees to disagree.

[00:15:35] Felicia: Exactly.

[00:15:37] Rachel: You almost moved out to San Francisco and then thought better of it,

[00:15:40] Felicia: Unwillingly.

[00:15:42] Rachel: Right, right, right. Well, so, okay, so you were recently announced as part of the first ever cohort for Sundance and Disney's Muslim Artist Fellowship. Congratulations, that's huge. Your project is an animated series titled Layla and the Starship Afrotopia. Tell us everything about it.

[00:16:01] Jumai: Yeah, so Layla and the Starship Afrotopia is, like you said, an animated pilot that I wrote that is family friendly type of show. It's about this 15 year old Black Muslim girl named Layla who's hijabi, and one day she discovers this power to create wormholes that whisks her away from her small town to the spaceship called Afrotopia, which is full of different alien species and lots of music and fun and all of the aliens look like black and brown people. And basically where her story goes is Afrotopia is a city spaceship traveling through the stars and they're running out of fuel and they're going to need a home planet to land on.

[00:16:44] Jumai: And that's where Layla will try to use all of her powers to help them. So that's a little bit about what the show is.

[00:16:52] Felicia: That sounds so cool. I want to dig into that a little bit further because, given what you just shared around your journey, and how you got into film, I'm curious because it sounds like going from the theater kid, I don't want to call it like a lifestyle, but mentality is a lot better word to, you know, getting into film.

[00:17:10] Felicia: And then obviously animation's a whole other ballgame. I'm just curious, what drove you to get into this project specifically? Cause it sounds like you said you you're writing it. Are you also directing it? What made you decide to step away a little bit from the acting sphere, which I feel like, you know, we talked to a couple other folks who are writers and directors and producers, and I'm always just really curious because I feel like, and this is my outsider viewpoint, but acting seems like the thing that everyone is presented with as the immediate way to get into this space and obviously it's only one way and so I'm just curious if that was a tension that you had to navigate or how you even decided to get into animation versus live action family members running through the woods behind your house kind of thing.

[00:17:58] Jumai: Yeah, I mean, it's really interesting you bring that up because in middle school and high school, acting was definitely the only thing I knew about theater. And I didn't understand that there were all these different positions backstage and stuff like that. I was really in college where I started to realize that not only is there a director, but there's a technical director and there's a sound designer and somebody does the light.

[00:18:24] Jumai: So I, I agreed that acting is definitely the thing that is easiest to latch onto. But I was never going to be an actor. No, that was not, that was a very short lived thing. In undergrad I did mostly behind or backstage sort of things. So I discovered directing and writing really back then.

[00:18:46] Jumai: And I guess for me, I was also a big reader as a kid and I would read books and automatically imagine what they might look like. And I think that's really what I'm still doing right now is like reading things and letting my imagination go wild and trying to create a vision for something right so I feel like that's really the through line into how I ended up on this side of the camera. 

[00:19:13] Felicia: As you were talking, I imagine that --maybe you were inspired by Octavia Butler or Ursula K. Le Guin, or especially Octavia Butler. Cause that's kind of like the science fiction, futuristic sort of element. Was that an element as far as your inspirations or were there other inspirations that you drew from?

[00:19:29] Jumai: yeah, for sure. I mean, in general, I do consider myself an Afrofuturist filmmaker. And for me, that really just means putting Black people, BIPOC people into speculative genres, because we will exist in the future. Part of that comes from being a full blown scientist for four years. Science fiction is one of my favorite genres, and in general, what gets me the most excited is like the sci fi, fantasy, horror, all the genre spaces, and again, centering the stories of people of color within those genre spaces. So yeah, Octavia Butler for sure an inspiration. When Black Panther came out that kind of blew my mind. Anything Beyonce does, there's a lot of getting inspirations from lots of different places for sure. 

[00:20:15] Rachel: So this is a great segue to how we actually learned about you, which was through the project Ramadan America. We connected with you through that work. You were director on The Eid Gift. I would love to know how you got involved with the project and your thoughts.

[00:20:35] Jumai: Yeah. So Ramadan America. First to explain what it is, it's an anthology. So it's five different short films that are all written and directed by Muslims, Muslim Americans. And they're all stories that are about the holidays of Ramadan and Eid, which is the month when we fast for 30 days and then ends at a big feast.

[00:20:58] Jumai: This project was started by Asad Butt and his production company called Rifelion Media. And the way I found out about it was through actually the Islamic Scholarship Fund, which is a great organization that gave me a little bit of money when I was coming to USC film school. They have just been really supportive with mentorship and other things like that.

[00:21:19] Jumai: So they shared the call for this new project that no one's ever heard of. And I remember going to one of the info sessions and the info session was actually about the writing of these projects, because they specifically wanted to have separate screenwriters and separate directors to really get as many Muslims as involved in this project.

[00:21:42] Jumai: And I remember hearing that and I was like, you know, it'd be really cool to direct one of these. So I was like, please hit me up when you get to that point. And then lo and behold, couple weeks or months later, I got an email and they invited me to read the scripts, pick one of the scripts that I really liked and pitched myself as a director, and that's how I read The Eid Gift by Halima Iman, who's an amazing writer. And I immediately just loved the story. I don't want to give it away, but it has a very shocking twist

[00:22:13] Felicia: Yeah, I was gonna say it has a little bit of a twist

[00:22:15] Rachel: Yep.

[00:22:16] Jumai: Yeah. No spoilers. And I remember my, I think my jaw literally dropped open when I read the script, which was even funnier because he told me about this story and I just, it just left my mind.

[00:22:30] Jumai: So I was so surprised reading it. Then I was like, yeah, I would really love to direct this and pitch myself. And here we are.

[00:22:37] Felicia: So fun. We have known Asad for many, many years and he and I both went to the same grad programs. That's how I got involved with him, but he's been an amazing friend and partner. And so, so happy that this has come together. And I'm curious because it sounds like you got notified about this project pretty early on and, but you'd gravitate towards directing.

[00:22:59] Felicia: So it feels like you've got all these sort of different things that you've been involved in. I would love to know what the work of directing a short actually entails because again, I think people are more familiar with like film directing, with big long shoots, but shorts are obviously a little bit of a different game.

[00:23:15] Felicia: So what did your work with directing The Eid Gift actually look like from a sort of process standpoint?

[00:23:22] Jumai: That's a, that is a very long question in a

[00:23:25] Felicia: I'm 

[00:23:26] Jumai: I mean,

[00:23:27] Felicia: try. It's not true. It's such a burden that I bear. Apologies.

[00:23:33] Jumai: no worries. Just in that directing is everything. You basically do everything. If that makes sense. I guess the comparative features, I think the major difference is It's just shorter shoot days. I think we did The Eid Gift in two and a half days.

[00:23:50] Jumai: And I really fought for that half to try to get

[00:23:52] Felicia: Wait, that's it? Just two and a half days?

[00:23:55] Jumai: yes, the more days, the more money and yada, yada, et cetera, et cetera. I guess to start from the very beginning, it was working with the screenwriter and we did do another draft of the script. So as a director, giving notes on the script to the writer, especially coming from the perspective of what can we actually accomplish?

[00:24:16] Jumai: For example, what can we film in only two and a half days? Do we need to cut some pages or maybe cut a location or two? So just try to make it more feasible. And then there's also early on in the process, making sort of mood board or pitch deck. So trying to communicate your vision to the rest of the crew, which is really the job of a director in a nutshell is having a vision and then somehow getting that out of your head to other people.

[00:24:46] Jumai: So that can be difficult. I remember scouring the internet and trying to find images that would match what I was going for. For example, costumes is really important for me. I was imagining one of the main characters in this film wearing a red dress and I was like, can I find fashion photography or something?

[00:25:04] Jumai: So things like that to put together that pitch deck. And then of course, working with the producers to find the locations that we filmed at. Our short, we actually were filming an Eid celebration at a masjid. So a huge part of that location scouting process was trying to find a masjid that would let us film here in LA.

[00:25:26] Jumai: And I remember going back and forth with like the local mosque that I go to in K Town. And then we. randomly at the last minute found one in San Gabriel that was really adorable. And so that, that was also a very interesting and stressful process. And then also gathering your crew. I, because I went to film school, I thankfully know a lot of crew members who also went to USC.

[00:25:49] Jumai: So that has always been a huge help for me in situations like this. And then casting, finding actors, that's a whole, that's a whole podcast worth of fun answers.

[00:26:02] Rachel: like fun. That one sounds like fun though.

[00:26:04] Jumai: It can be fun for sure. This one was interesting because we were looking for a male actor who could play the piano and then a female actress who could sing and dance.

[00:26:16] Jumai: So a lot of restrictions. For Ramadan America, we also wanted mostly actors to be Muslims as well. That was really cool to be able to like meet people and expand my community here in LA. That was definitely a highlight of the process. And then you go on set and then you just hope everything goes well.

[00:26:33] Jumai: And then there's editing too, which is a whole, again, a whole nother podcast worth of content. So it is a long process. 

[00:26:46] Rachel: I'm curious because you're both a writer and a director, do you gravitate toward one or the other, and, I have a two parter. Or do you find that it's really helpful to be able to do both writing and directing on something?

[00:26:57] Jumai: I will say I do gravitate towards directing. I moved to Los Angeles to be a director. That was my main goal, going all the way back to directing theater and stuff like that. The writing came as a secondary thing because I very quickly realized that I needed to write in order to be able to continue directing, to be able to self generate content and ideas and also to make things that I like, and not sit around and wait for hopefully a script as good as The Eid Gift to just land in my lap.

[00:27:28] Jumai: So the writing really came to support the directing. It is nice to do both of those things on one project, but it's also very nice to have the separation of not having written a script and not being so defensive or protective over and being able to be in a separate mind space. I definitely think that can be helpful for the creative process as well. By the time you get to the editing. It's almost like you have to forget you also directed this film as well, you know cause you really need to be able to look at it from that objective point of view.

[00:28:03] Jumai: So yeah, I do like doing both and I am developing a lot of projects where I do want to write and direct, but I'm also very, very happy with directing as well on its own.

[00:28:13] Felicia: What are some common obstacles or challenges that either you have faced or you think in general people might face if they're trying to break into directing specifically? 

[00:28:23] Jumai: I think that one of the biggest challenges for directing specifically as opposed to writing is that you need other people. Part of the great thing about writing is that you can sit behind your computer by yourself, you can write something and never have to talk to another human, really.

[00:28:41] Jumai: But directing is such a collaborative process. So, I mean, you have to know people. Going to film school and knowing people who can be your DP and stuff like that. Just getting that community can definitely be that first sort of thing that feels like a barrier for folks. If you're living in Massachusetts, for example, and not living in the middle of a huge film community, like how do you find your people and get together and create?

[00:29:09] Jumai: I think another thing too is also just the equipment and resources and money as well and that money obstacle I think never goes away. Even when you start to make some things, then you wanna keep getting more and being bigger and stretch out and then you'll need more money.

[00:29:30] Jumai: So that is definitely an obstacle that will always be there.

[00:29:35] Rachel: Relatedly, I'm kind of curious. You got to LA in 2018. So the Me Too movement really started in 2017. We had a lot more conversations around the toxicity ,of the industry. Started then, but certainly increased over the time, but it seems like the space that you occupy is really supportive and lovely.

[00:29:55] Rachel: Do you feel like you've witnessed or experienced any sort of shifts in the space that you've occupied over the course of the past 6 or so years?

[00:30:07] Jumai: Maybe yes and no. Pretty sure I was in college when Me Too and when Black Lives Matter, all of that started like happening. And I remember being like, Oh no, but I'm not in LA yet. So what if people kind of forget that they made all these promises by the time I get out there?

[00:30:27] Jumai: And I mean, to be honest, I don't know if I've seen such a eagerness or such a hunger for projects by woman or by black people from like the studio side, trying to get like bigger things made, like trying to get my first feature made. But like you said, I've definitely found the group of people that I like to work with.

[00:30:50] Jumai: People like Asad with Rafelian, like that is a such a supportive community in ISF and there's so many organizations I feel like have supported me in my career and since I've gotten here in LA, so that is definitely a really great thing. I just don't know if I've necessarily seen like the studio exec ready to write a check, you know, on 

[00:31:10] Rachel: that

[00:31:11] Rachel: energy. Right.

[00:31:12] Jumai: Yeah,

[00:31:13] Rachel: You're like in this small business space versus like the VC space.

[00:31:17] Jumai: sure.

[00:31:18] Felicia: That's how we would approach it in our, our sphere.

[00:31:22] Rachel: yeah.

[00:31:23] Jumai: That makes sense.

[00:31:24] Felicia: It sounds like obviously community has been really important for you and a really huge factor in what you've been working on and the success that you've had so far. What other advice would you give to someone who might be interested in getting started in this field or pursuing similar passions, like getting into directing or coming out to California, that kind of thing?

[00:31:44] Jumai: I definitely, if there's any way possible to find people around you near where you live that are also interested in making films, I do think that is a way to get started. While I was living in Massachusetts, I I remember I drove to Providence, Rhode Island to like be a PA on a short, and I'm like, that's close enough.

[00:32:03] Jumai: You know what I mean?

[00:32:04] Felicia: Oh, yeah. Providence is definitely close to that.

[00:32:08] Jumai: and so also nowadays with like social media and just online groups, I think that might even be easier than it was just five years ago, like finding different Facebook groups or discord, or just to try to start to meet people and be able to bring people together and go shoot something on a weekend. People always say the thing of, Oh, everybody has a camera in their pocket now with an iPhone. Oh, which I feel like it's, you can get tired of hearing that, but I do think if you are just starting out and you don't have the resources and the money that I was talking about, I think that's a place where having an iPhone in your pocket can be something helpful where you can just at least start to get the feel of making moving images, you know what I mean?

[00:32:55] Jumai: So, yeah.

[00:32:58] Rachel: It is, I mean, it is certainly shifted, I'm imagining from like people back in the day to get the big, the big cameras. But speaking of, speaking of socials, so we stalked your socials a bit, and we noticed that you're a little cosplayer, would love to sort of dig into that a little bit.

[00:33:17] Rachel: What's that about?

[00:33:18] Jumai: Yeah, it's funny you say that because I have a wig sitting on a wig head in my bedroom right now because I'm going to AnimeNYC this coming weekend. It kind of connects to the whole why I do animation as well as live action, because I've been a huge fan of Japanese anime since I was a kid.

[00:33:37] Jumai: And me and my, I have two younger sisters who are twins. We've been going to conventions since high school, starting with anime Boston. Um, and that's when we all sort of got the cosplay bug of just seeing people just looking so cool. Like, is this real life? You know what I mean? And I actually started as a steampunk cosplayer.

[00:34:02] Jumai: So I wasn't actually dressing up as a character. I was just creating an outfit that felt, uh, fit a steampunk aesthetic and borrowing a lot of my mom's clothes. And just putting things

[00:34:15] Felicia: did your mom just have, like, a steampunk closet ready to go, like?

[00:34:19] Jumai: Yes and no.

[00:34:20] Rachel: century vibe.

[00:34:23] Jumai: of lace, you know, lace dresses. And she'd be like, you cannot keep using this as a costume. Like these are like actual good dresses. But it was a fun way to exercise creativity in terms of just like putting things together, putting an outfit together. Like that's always fun.

[00:34:41] Rachel: Totally. We just had Comic Con here and I 

[00:34:44] Jumai: Yes. I was there.

[00:34:45] Rachel: Oh, you were there. Did you dress up?

[00:34:48] Jumai: A little bit. Comic Con versus anime conventions is like a whole thing. I'm a very anime person, so most of my cosplays, if I wore them to Comic Con, people would not know what I'm dressing as. 

[00:35:01] Felicia: So 

[00:35:01] Jumai: So it's always a

[00:35:02] Felicia: lot of overlap. Yeah, I'm, I'm not super into either world, to be honest, but, like, I would have assumed until you just said that, that there was quite a bit of, like, sort of Venn diagram overlap between the two populations or communities of But no,

[00:35:15] Jumai: There is, there is overlap, but you usually get maybe only the shows that are the most popular. You'll see those people at Comic Con, but then at like Anime Expo in LA is the biggest anime convention in the U. S., maybe the world. And that's where you can dress up as a niche character from a niche anime and people will still come up to you and be like, Oh my God, I love that show.

[00:35:38] Rachel: Yeah, it's true. Cause Comic Con I, I used to think Comic Con was really the same as it was like comics and anime, but like, it's wild. You go there and it's like anything related to sci fi fantasy, like any shows. So like, Lord of the Rings, Rings of Power had a big activation there. And Star Trek would be there and like, just any show that they wanted to promote.

[00:36:00] Rachel: Yeah, I felt like the actual like comic anime, that piece of it, was like 20 percent of what that situation was. It was wild. Well, I'm glad you were there. Next time you come, let me know.

[00:36:15] Jumai: Yeah, for sure. It is San Diego comicCon is an experience. I've been going three years and it, it's definitely a lot of fun. And you're right, they have like Elementary is

[00:36:26] Rachel: Yes. Yes.

[00:36:28] Jumai: yeah.

[00:36:28] Rachel: why Abbott Elementary there, actually? Yeah,

[00:36:30] Felicia: That is so interesting. Um, why is that? I mean, I love the show, but like,

[00:36:35] Rachel: yeah,

[00:36:36] Felicia: okay.

[00:36:37] Rachel: Cause money.

[00:36:39] Jumai: And fandom, fandom for sure. I think,

[00:36:42] Rachel: fandom.

[00:36:43] Jumai: yeah, people realize just how powerful fandom is and Abbott Elementary has been there a few years, so it's now become like a thing at Comic Con, you know.

[00:36:52] Rachel: so

[00:36:52] Felicia: really? I'm learning so much right now. I'm like really interested in that. I want to go back to the anime piece though, because, you said that's sort of like your first focus. I, again, I'm very unfamiliar with animes, but I'm curious to learn more. So do you have a favorite one that you gravitate towards?

[00:37:13] Jumai: This is very, this is also a very hard question. It's like, just naming one. I mean, think about Japanese anime that people don't understand is that it's just as ubiquitous as television. So there is all of the genres exist in anime and more that we have never heard of here in the States. Like there are animes that are shōnen, which just means like young boys, which basically means action and very popular things like that.

[00:37:42] Jumai: And then there's shōjo for young girls. So there are so many different things that sometimes I have to stop myself and be like, wait, people don't know what these genres are because they don't actually exist here. But some of my favorite animes, there's a show called Attack on Titan, which is amazing.

[00:38:01] Jumai: And it was,

[00:38:02] Felicia: I have actually heard of that again, haven't seen

[00:38:05] Jumai: we go.

[00:38:06] Jumai: We 

[00:38:06] Felicia: heard of it, which I feel like probably speaks to how popular it must be.

[00:38:10] Jumai: It is, it is very popular. And the funny thing is, is I remember being an anime Boston when Attack on Titan, the anime first started coming out. And seeing the very first cosplayers of that show. So that was back, like I said, I started going there in high school and that show just finished last year, I believe.

[00:38:30] Jumai: So that was a 10 year journey of my life. I'm just watching this anime and I think that is definitely part of the reason why it'll always be up there for me. And also it's, it's an amazing show. 

[00:38:43] Rachel: When I was a child, I was obsessed with Robotech and it was a space opera. It was like a space opera. It was ridiculous. And I remember watching it. As a child, and then, does this ever happen to you when you were a kid, where you're watching something and it's on, like, every weekday at a certain time, and then all of a sudden it's just not on anymore? And every weekend I would go, and it would not be there anymore, and it was very upsetting, and I didn't understand what was happening. But now we have the internet, so it's fine.

[00:39:15] Jumai: So sad.

[00:39:16] Rachel: I know. I have, you can add Robotech to your list. It's from 1985. Long,

[00:39:23] Jumai: That's OG, OG anime. Yeah,

[00:39:27] Rachel: That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[00:39:29] Jumai: I love that.

[00:39:31] Felicia: I feel like these are, these questions are going to expose our ages to you, Jumai. So my question was going to be, do you think Sailor Moon counts as anime? Cause

[00:39:40] Jumai: Well, yes, yes, Sailor Moon is a, Sailor Moon is a huge anime. Yeah, very, very

[00:39:47] Felicia: I was a huge sailor moon fan, but similar to Rachel, it just like stopped being on one day. And I remember being like, what, like what's going on with her and the tuxedo guy. And

[00:39:57] Felicia: then, uh, you know, I got distracted by other stuff in my life, but, um, yeah, I remember that was huge for me.

[00:40:02] Jumai: Well, it's still available for you on Hulu,

[00:40:06] Felicia: Yeah. Oh, Oh, okay. Good to know. Good to 

[00:40:08] Jumai: And they keep making like new versions and reboots. And yeah, that is a huge anime property for sure. That definitely counts.

[00:40:16] Felicia: Okay,

[00:40:17] Rachel: And Attack on Titan is on Hulu. I was just looking it up. We're good.

[00:40:21] Rachel: We're going to be very busy. This is

[00:40:23] Jumai: I love this.

[00:40:24] Felicia: we're heading into fall, at least here in Massachusetts, it's feels like summer is over and it's just gone straight into fall. So some good watching for our future. Thank you for indulging our questions.

[00:40:35] Jumai: Yeah, well, I should say Sailor Moon and Attack on Titan are very different vibes, just to be clear. Attack on Titan starts off in that shōnen sort of young male protagonist action sort of thing, and becomes a very adult show in terms of we're talking about war and politics. So, as opposed to Sailor Moon, so just wanted to, I didn't want you to equate those two, going with 

[00:41:00] Felicia: fair. Totally 

[00:41:01] Rachel: ha Wait, What happens in Sailor Moon?

[00:41:03] Jumai: Sailor Moon is a magical girl anime, which actually is a huge inspiration for the pilot that I wrote, Leila and the Starship Afrotopia, because I wanted to create a magical girl

[00:41:14] Felicia: Yeah. I mean, why not?

[00:41:15] Jumai: cartoon, I guess, is what you might call it in the West. So that means you know you get to go through a sequence where your outfit changes and you get your magical powers and it's very girly and very fun and also very powerful. That's part of the Sailor Moon vibe.

[00:41:33] Rachel: Ooh, so many things to consume.

[00:41:37] Jumai: I love it. Next time we see each other, you're going to be like cosplaying. You're going to

[00:41:41] Rachel: Oh my

[00:41:42] Jumai: outfits. It's going to be great.

[00:41:44] Rachel: ready to go.

[00:41:45] Rachel: Watch out Comic Con 2025.

[00:41:47] Jumai: there you go.

[00:41:49] Felicia: um, I will say this is like, so not on the same level at all, but my husband is a, um, mini donut vendor. And a couple of weekends ago, he was supposed to be selling donuts at a Renaissance fair. So again, not anime convention or comic con, but like sort

[00:42:06] Rachel: Definitely cosplay.

[00:42:08] Jumai: very

[00:42:08] Felicia: thing that made me think of it and why I'm bringing up is because it was just going to be him and me, and I usually go and I help, do cashier or whatever, and we would go camping, and it would be like a really fun time. And literally maybe a few days before we were supposed to go, he came to me and he was like, FYI, so I re read the contract for the vendors, and we are required to be in costume when we are at the Renaissance Fair.

[00:42:32] Felicia: And he's a food vendor, so he had assumed that you just show up in whatever you wear, because he's making donuts in hot oil. And he was like, I read the contract, we have to be wearing outfits. And I was like, okay, here we go, Amazon, because like, where am I supposed to find a medieval renaissance fair outfit?

[00:42:52] Felicia: And I'm like, googling it. So Amazon had a lot of options. I bought a bunch of stuff, and then it all came. And then very sadly, I caught COVID. Or I should say he caught COVID and then he passed it to me. So we ended up not being able to go after all. So I had all this renaissance fair outfits in my house and so I ended up returning most of it.

[00:43:10] Felicia: But there was like one or two dresses that I got where I was like, this is like a vibe that I could totally wear not at a renaissance fair and you never know when you might need a ren fair appropriate outfit. So I did keep like one or two items.

[00:43:24] Jumai: love that. And you should go to Ren Faire.

[00:43:26] Felicia: I do. I do really want to.

[00:43:29] Rachel: Agreed. Tis the season.

[00:43:31] Jumai: Yes.

[00:43:33] Rachel: mead.

[00:43:33] Felicia: Indeed, we have a giant turkey leg.

[00:43:36] Jumai: Yeah, see some jousting, which apparently they do in real life.

[00:43:41] Felicia: Well, I, I have been to a renaissance fair once in my life. It was many years ago. I think I was like 21, probably just out of college. And I do remember the jousting. It was

[00:43:50] Rachel: Oh, no, I have been to one in New England, probably 10 years ago. Yeah, it doesn't change, because the Renaissance Faire.

[00:43:58] Felicia: They have a formula.

[00:43:59] Rachel: They have a formula, it works. I know we already covered what you geek out about with the cosplay, but is there anything else that you want to share that you are geeking out about at the moment?

[00:44:09] Jumai: Yeah, I was worried about this question because this whole conversation has been what I geek out about. I try to live what I geek out about, I guess, in a way. In terms of things that are occupying my time very recently, I did purchase a Peloton over New Year's and as like a gift for myself and a New Year's resolution to have a 52 week streak on my Peloton.

[00:44:36] Jumai: So that has been something where I might go on a trip and I'm like, but I gotta get this Peloton. So I don't lose my streak.

[00:44:44] Rachel: Are you on your streak still? We're like,

[00:44:45] Jumai: I still we're like 39. And it's funny because I actually lately haven't been doing cycling. I've been doing barre classes. So I have been geeking out a little bit about doing barre classes with these amazing instructors who are very funny and they literally make me laugh as I'm exercising, which helps the pain. 

[00:45:05] Rachel: We like the Pelotons over here as well. And in the SGO land, so here

[00:45:10] Jumai: Nice. Nice.

[00:45:11] Rachel: Could certainly talk about exercise. Felicia certainly knows that that is an obsession of mine. I just did a half marathon yesterday. So, um, yeah. Yeah. My body is not happy with me, but that's okay.

[00:45:25] Rachel: She'll figure it out.

[00:45:27] Jumai: That is not something in my future. Congratulations.

[00:45:31] Rachel: Don't do it.

[00:45:34] Felicia: You know what the best thing is? Is to go and cheer someone on who is running. And then, be there to be like, Oh my god, you did it! Let's get a post race beer! Or french fries, or whatever it is that they want. And then just be like, You did so great! And then expend all your energy cheering, and then be like, Oh, this is so exhausting!

[00:45:57] Rachel: I remember going to the Boston Marathon and like applauding and being like, oh my god, I'm so tired from all this applauding and cheering.

[00:46:03] Felicia: That would be my favorite thing to do is that exact thing and and then say very loudly as we would pass by runners who are walking back. Going, Oh, it's so tiring to be a cheerleader, but I have a lot of appreciation for people who decide to do that. Like you, Rachel, because it is a lot of work and

[00:46:19] Jumai: Yeah. Boston Marathon where my hometown is one of the stops on the marathon.

[00:46:24] Rachel: Sure 

[00:46:25] Jumai: had that. Yeah.

[00:46:26] Rachel: Yeah. Yeah. I'll pass on that Boston marathon. 

[00:46:30] Felicia: So, before we wrap up officially, is there anything that you would like to share, promote, anywhere where people can find you?

[00:46:37] Jumai: Yes. So I am on social media. I mostly use Instagram, and that is at, iamjumaii with two I's at the end. So that's IAMJUMAII. There's another person who doesn't have two I's. That is not me. They have like 45, 000 followers. That's not me, unfortunately. But yeah, so two I's at the end. Um, and I guess you can also follow the latest short film I directed, which is actually animated.

[00:47:06] Jumai: It's called Nate and John. And we also have an Instagram page and a Facebook page, at Nate and John film, and I will be posting updates about that and our festival circuit and things like that. And yeah, if you see me in cosplay at a convention, come say hi. It's totally fine. So

[00:47:25] Rachel: Love it. Well, thank you so much, Jumai. This was a delight.

[00:47:29] Jumai: Thank you. I feel like I was a little bit nervous coming into this space because I, like I said, I've listened to previous episodes where you interview literal astronauts,

[00:47:41] Felicia: Oh,

[00:47:41] Jumai: but this was, this was fun. 

[00:47:44] Rachel: You definitely qualify as an extraordinary human, so don't short change yourself.

[00:47:49] Felicia: yes.

[00:47:50] Jumai: so much.

[00:47:51] Felicia: Thank you.

[00:47:52] Felicia: All right. That was so delightful. Thank you so much again, Jumai. And for everyone who's still listening, we hope you enjoyed listening to this interview as much as we enjoyed our conversation.

[00:48:06] Rachel: Yay. Thank you so much for listening. And please don't forget to rate, share, and subscribe. It really makes a huge difference in the reach of this podcast and by extension, this work. So visit us on YouTube, Instagram, and LinkedIn to stay up to date on all things Inclusion Geeks and stay geeky.

[00:48:22] Felicia: Bye.

[00:48:24]