Science-Backed Wellness and Longevity with Rachele Pojednic

[00:00:00] 

[00:00:08] Rachel: Hello, and welcome to the She Geeks Out podcast presented by Inclusion Geeks. This is where we geek out about workplace inclusion and talk with brilliant humans doing great work to make the world a better and brighter place. I'm Rachel.

[00:00:21] Felicia: And I'm Felicia. Let's get into

[00:00:24] Rachel: it.

[00:00:26] Felicia: feel like we need to have let's get ready to rumble music behind that. But very, very apt for, I think what we can talk about for today, which is we thought we'd chat a little bit amongst ourselves about how we are prepping for election season.

[00:00:42] Rachel: Oh my goodness, yeah, so when this comes out, it'll be October 2nd, about a month away from election day, give or take, and we've been building out some, uh, scenarios.

[00:00:54] Felicia: Yeah. I think every company is approaching this a little bit differently, but the one thing that I feel all of us have in common is we do need to think about what is going to happen and how that will impact us. And the way that we have decided to approach this for better or for worse is we are coming up with some scenarios and we are just trying to think through all the different decision tree possibilities of what could happen on November 5th and then into the rest of the month and year to see what's going to go on with the election. So what, how many scenarios do we come up with, Rachel? I think we

[00:01:26] Rachel: We have like, five, but honestly, I feel like there were a few more related to aliens that we could certainly get into. But

[00:01:33] Felicia: know, I love a good alien

[00:01:35] Rachel: I, I know, but I want to preface this too, by saying one thing that is always important to think about for your team for election day and election week, which we're like, of course, but then people forget is first of all, obviously taking election day off.

[00:01:48] Rachel: So if you,

[00:01:49] Felicia: Well, but it's good that you mentioned it. Cause it's not obvious

[00:01:52] Rachel: I

[00:01:52] Felicia: And. You know, a lot of companies don't even get their employees time off to vote. So at bare minimum, give your employees time to vote. So the bare, bare, bare minimum, but if you can, yes, take the day off, which we will be doing spoiler alert, at inclusion.

[00:02:08] Felicia: So we will not be working that day.

[00:02:10] Rachel: that's right. And we also, we're going to have the next day be very work optional. I mean, we have unlimited PTO and we're going to encourage people to take it. I will probably take it. And we also as a training company, we are advising our clients to not have any trainings that week because, you know, we like to think election day would just be one day, but it seems like those days might be gone.

[00:02:33] Felicia: I think that's a really good example of how we are implementing lessons learned, because we definitely had trainings, I think the same day, if not like the day or two after when Jan six happened, what was that a couple of years ago at this point, I came

[00:02:49] Rachel: years ago,

[00:02:49] Felicia: with time four years ago.

[00:02:51] Felicia: Wow. That was something where we had to adjust really quickly in real time to be responsive to what was happening. And if people can't remember, for me, I know I was so distracted that day. So I don't think I was actually delivering a training, but if I had been, there's no way I could have managed the group because I would have also been probably try to keep a scroll of what was happening in real time alongside what I was doing for work.

[00:03:17] Felicia: So definitely something to think about. And that's one of the learnings that we are implementing from the wildest of the last couple of years.

[00:03:24] Rachel: That just reminds me, I actually believe that we have a webinar that's going to be happening in October.

[00:03:30] Felicia: you're right.

[00:03:31] Rachel: Look at us!

[00:03:32] Felicia: You are right indeed. We'll talk more about that after after the podcast. So stay tuned for our post podcast chat. But yes, we'll talk more about that. But anyway, so yes, definitely, take time if you can devote if you're able to give time off to folks that day and the day after.

[00:03:49] Felicia: Keep that in mind, just in general, really be aware that, this is not just for your team. It's for us. And for you all too. You may not be fully present and locked in, you might be distracted. I think we can safely say we will be distracted. So let's just plan ahead for that accordingly.

[00:04:07] Felicia: And that's how we are going to handle that.

[00:04:09] Rachel: right. That's right. And so, yeah, we'll have a variety of scenarios. Maybe we can talk about that next time because I know that people probably want to listen to our actual guests. Honestly, we could probably spend an entire podcast episode just going through the different snares. Do you want to run through one or two?

[00:04:25] Felicia: yeah, let's talk through a couple. Let's just talk to the first two because I think those are the obvious ones. But first is that Kamala Harris is clearly the victor. There is no ifs, ands, or buts. There's no confusion. Trump does not do anything to throw a wrench into it. It's just an amazing time and we have our first ever woman president.

[00:04:47] Felicia: So that's scenario number one. We hope this is the scenario that we will have. What 

[00:04:52] Rachel: putting out there.

[00:04:53] Felicia: the energy, the vibes that we want

[00:04:55] Rachel: Well, and I will say I had a birthday recently and I had the good fortune of celebrating it like about seven times for a variety of reasons. People just kept bringing out like birthday cakes and with candles. So, I made many wishes all to the same thing.

[00:05:09] Rachel: So I'm pretty sure that it's going to happen. We got

[00:05:12] Felicia: know what? I'm here for it. I'm here for it. So yeah, anyone who's out there, if like you find the dandelion, if you see one of those little wispy things come by, if you have a birthday

[00:05:22] Felicia: in 

[00:05:23] Rachel: an eyelash.

[00:05:24] Felicia: like to, we'd like to request things from the moon when the moon is full. So whatever, whatever floats your boat, put that energy out there.

[00:05:33] Felicia: Scenario number two. Do you want to tell us what's your number two? It was all

[00:05:36] Rachel: nightmare scenario where we die inside and Trump wins by a landslide. And then it's a real question for folks that are doing this work is like, how do we go on if we're even able to go on because we do understand that Project 2025. And honestly, the policies that have been implemented in Florida as well as nationally when he was in office, were very clearly trying to stop any conversation around this work that we do.

[00:06:03] Rachel: Yeah, it's definitely a concern, but we are planning for what that might look like, and honestly, it's worth mentioning scenario, like the other type of

[00:06:11] Felicia: Let's just talk about our scenarios,

[00:06:13] Rachel: yeah While we like to think that scenario one is the most likely that's where my heart is, we know that after last time, it could be very well drawn out, it could be very close.

[00:06:25] Rachel: I have a lot of faith in the Swifties to make sure that's not going to happen. The reality is, according to the polls today, it's very, very close. And the closer it is, the more opportunity there is for people rejecting what is happening and questioning each and every Chad on every ballot.

[00:06:45] Felicia: like a deep cut out there

[00:06:46] Rachel: It is a little deep cut. Yeah. And then maybe Trump wins and then the aliens come down and save us all.

[00:06:52] Felicia: Yes. You never know, right? And I do want to just say on that note, recall back in 2020 that the government did slip in there. Oh, by the way, we think aliens exist. And we just all glossed over that because we were like, we got bigger issues right now with the COVID and the world burning down. But they did say that.

[00:07:12] Felicia: So I'm just saying. I love a good alien red herring being thrown in, but it's not out of the realm of possibility. So, anyway, whatever your scenarios are, it's worth thinking through because we're glossing over it, but we do have some more deep stuff around how we want to think about each option that might happen for us.

[00:07:31] Felicia: And I think the biggest takeaway really, though, is just that in all likelihood, it's not going to be clear cut right away. So we have to be ready mentally and physically and spiritually and emotionally and all the things prepared, for ambiguity, stress, anxiety, fear, joy, whatever might come our way. So it's gonna, it's gonna be, we're going to have to get ready.

[00:07:53] Felicia: We have to really buckle up for the long haul here.

[00:07:56] Rachel: Buckle up. Get your sleep in. Take it. Breathe deeply. Take a lot of deep breaths.

[00:08:03] Felicia: Rachel and I are already, we're both like, we're going to stay up all night long. And who knows? I

[00:08:10] Rachel: going to feel good either way the next

[00:08:12] Felicia: know.

[00:08:13] Rachel: But that's neither here nor there. 

[00:08:15] Felicia: All right. Let's kind of mentally break from this discussion as important as it is, but we have an amazing guest today. So Rachel, who is our guest on today's podcast? 

[00:08:25] Rachel: I am so excited to introduce the incredible Rachel Pojednic. We actually spoke with her on, episode 23. We're like in episode 140 something and that was back in February of 2017. Oh my goodness. February, 2017.

[00:08:41] Felicia: before times

[00:08:43] Rachel: know, it was the before time, but when you think about it, not to get back to the election stuff, February, 2017 was also like, I think it was, Yeah, it was the very beginning.

[00:08:50] Rachel: It was when the world was rocked. Yeah, when I remember with the Muslim ban, and I was like, what is happening? So anyway, but that's okay because we could talk with Rachele about nothing to do with politics, and it was actually quite lovely. And it turns out it was actually one of our most popular episodes.

[00:09:08] Rachel: Not surprising though, because she is just a font of knowledge. And so for those of you who don't know who she is, she is a renowned expert in nutrition and exercise science with faculty roles at Stanford University, research appointments at Harvard Medical School and Edith Cowan University and as the founder of Strong Process and director of scientific research to Restore Hyper Wellness, She focuses on the intersection of nutrition, exercise, and healthy aging, empowering others through evidence based wellness practices. And we got into it yet again.

[00:09:42] Felicia: Yeah, so it's a great chat and you will be thrilled to learn all of the things from Rachele. But before we officially go ahead and switch over and welcome Rachele, we want to share a really exciting resource with you. Did you know? That we have a great, amazing, fantastic newsletter that is packed with all the latest news insights and resources on workplace inclusion.

[00:10:02] Felicia: We think it's the best source for learning on how to support a truly fair and inclusive work environment. So don't miss out. If you're not signed up already, go ahead and sign up today at inclusiongeeks.com/newsletter and stay informed and inspired. Welcome to the show Rachele.

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[00:10:23] Felicia: All right. Hello, Rachele. Not my usual Rachel. New Rachele. Guest Rachele.

[00:10:30] Rachele: Two Rachel's. It's

[00:10:31] Rachel: even more special because you have an extra E in your name.

[00:10:36] Rachele: true. It's Felicia probably can relate is that everybody always wants to call me Rochelle because of the extra E. So yeah, Rachele

[00:10:44] Felicia: you say that because I have obviously met you before. We podcasted together before. We've known each other for a long time and I still had to just fight back saying Rochelle or some variation. And on that, when I said hello to you, even though I know how you pronounce their name, and I think especially over zoom, seeing your name written out makes it even harder.

[00:11:04] Felicia: So I'm sure you get this all the time.

[00:11:07] Rachele: all the time. My mom thought it was pretty. It's very cute. It's good. But yeah, endless mispronunciation,

[00:11:14] Felicia: Well, we did last speak to you officially on the record for the pod in 2018, which is literally a lifetime ago. So why don't we just start off with you telling us what have you been up to since then? I don't even know how many years that is. That's like a bajillion

[00:11:29] Rachel: Yeah, I think it's about 372 years, I believe, specifically. A

[00:11:33] Felicia: This may take the rest of the podcast just to get through.

[00:11:35] Rachele: especially post COVID years. I feel like we're all living in dog years now. It's like, Oh yeah, it was six years ago, but it's technically 36 now.

[00:11:43] Rachel: 100 percent.

[00:11:45] Rachele: Um, I'm pretty sure when we last spoke, if it was 2018, I was working at Simmons University, I probably just started there a couple of years in, and I was teaching dietetic students, so RDs, so my background is in nutrition and exercise, and when COVID hit, my husband and I had this little cabin up in Vermont, and we were like, oh, we'll go up there for the two weeks that this is going to last.

[00:12:11] Rachele: And about a year and a half in, we realized, I think we actually live here now, and we made it official. And I started working at a university in Vermont called Norwich University, which was super cool and sort of tilted my career from nutrition and exercise for chronic health interventions, things like sarcopenia and type two diabetes into a little bit more human performance because Norwich is a senior military college. So it wasn't far afield. I've always worked with athletes, but it was really cool to sort of dip into what we're calling tactical athletes now. These are warfighters, firefighters, police, people that really need their body to do their job well, and if they are not physically prepared, they can end up in a lot of trouble from an occupational perspective. And so we were there for three years. And after that, my husband went on heavy air quotes, sabbatical from his job. He is an athletic coach and he is a rowing coach and there is no rowing in Vermont, if you are anywhere south of Burlington. He tried out a couple of other things. He became a tactical athlete himself. He became a full time ski patroller, which was really cool to have those things happening in parallel in my life. And then he got the itch to go back to coaching and right at that time, Stanford University called and they were like, Hey, would you come out and coach and we're like, All right, let's blow it up again. Here we go. We've always wanted to go to the left coast and it was just a really great opportunity with a really good anchor. And so he had a solid job out here coaching, and this is where things get really crazy and fun for me. So you both know me as kind of a science communicator and a myth buster.

[00:14:01] Rachele: And I had a really incredible opportunity to pivot into industry at the time when we came out here. And I think everybody, when I did this and started working specifically for the company that I work for now, which is a lot of sort of complimentary therapies, things like red light therapy and hyperbaric oxygen and IV micronutrients, everybody was like, like you could hear the record scratching, right?

[00:14:26] Rachele: People were like, she, she did what? And so here was the pitch when I pivoted into industry. Um, and I'm not like a hundred million percent all the way in. I did actually pick up, which was really great, I picked up a faculty appointment at Stanford too. So I do teach at the university there, which is a pretty awesome place to be.

[00:14:47] Rachele: But, here's my thought. You both know this. My entire career, I've been like, there's no data there. There's no science there. Like, come on, we can't be making these claims. And this was the pitch that this company made to me. They said, Rachel, we recognize that we have what we call an absence of evidence, right?

[00:15:05] Rachele: So when I say absence of evidence, what I mean is there's just not a lot of data out there, right? Which is different than the evidence of absence, which is we've tested that and it doesn't work, right? Those are two different things. They said to me, we have an absence of evidence and we want to put our money where our mouth is.

[00:15:25] Rachele: We recognize that we are a very large system. We are making these claims. We believe they are true, anecdotally. We are seeing that our clients are experiencing these very positive outcomes, but we don't have the skillset to study this stuff. And you do, you've always studied kind of weird things.

[00:15:44] Rachele: Last time we talked, I think I was down the CBD route and I was studying vitamin D for a while and everything. And they were like, you have a skillset here where you understand the fitness and wellness world. You know how to do really good data. You're really thoughtful and creative thinking about ways to analyze these kinds of therapies.

[00:16:00] Rachele: Would you come and take over our science and R and D division and put some good research behind what we're doing. And I said, on two conditions. Number one, I want to see your safety data. So I went straight to their general counsel and I said, I want to know that what you're doing is at the very least benign, right? Like you are not doing something that is harmful for people. Show me the numbers because they actually do have to keep track of that kind of data. So they showed it to me and it was actually remarkably clean. And they were like, we take this very seriously. We're a huge company.

[00:16:38] Rachele: We're under the watchful eye of the FDA. And this is really important for us, which is something I would love to come back to of like pulling back the curtain on the wellness industry. What goes on behind the scenes? Okay. Second condition was I'm not going to rubber stamp your shit. Right. So if you bring me on board and something shows up where there is an Evidence of absence or I show that what you've been saying is not true or that something else is true, you have to give me the sort of free reign to be able to say that very honestly and openly to our system to our clients. It is incredibly important to me that we are truthful in this space. And then I said, I also need five years every single point they said yes yes and yes. That was really exciting, and this is an incredible way for me, I feel like to almost become a Trojan horse, right? Where I can go into this space that we've talked about before. I love the fitness and wellness industry. I adore them. They are my people. I was an 18 year old personal trainer way back in the day. You may recall in Bally's Total Fitness, which is in Cambridge, way down the stairs at the T Stop. Porter square.

[00:17:54] Rachel M 2: Ah, good old times.

[00:17:56] Rachele: Good old Porter Square. And so this is the world of people that I have grown up in and among, right?

[00:18:02] Rachele: And as I became a professional in the scientific side of this house, we've discussed this a million times. These two worlds don't talk to each other, right? They literally do not speak. There is no bridge. Like people do not live in both spaces. They live in one or they live in the other. And so this is the time where I was like, All of my universes are combining my worlds, my entire world, my entire life has been a series of Venn diagrams, right?

[00:18:28] Rachele: And if you look at the logo for my company, Strong Process now, it is one circle has a lot of like little bendy lines in it. And one circle has straight lines and I live right in the middle in between the straight lines and the spreadsheets and the curvy lines of like complimentary medicine and wellness, right? The universe just really created an opportunity for me to professionally embrace that middle of the Venn diagram here. And so it's been almost two years. We have two studies that are either published or the next one is in press looking at a combination of our therapies together, as well as cryotherapy and specifically thinking about recovery and performance and, you know, again, taking all of these worlds.

[00:19:11] Rachele: And the other thing that's been super amazing as I have stepped into this, I have learned in this space, there are so many researchers out there that want to be a part of this research. They need these toys that I now have in my toy box because they are so hard to study. One of the reasons why I was like, fine, screw it. Like I'm leaving academia is doing research is really hard.

[00:19:37] Rachele: Really hard between getting the funding, getting the equipment, getting the permission to study these things. Everybody wants to know, what does the data say? Why is the data so far behind where industry is? It's because when you're doing research, you're taking a chisel to a mountain, right?

[00:19:53] Rachele: It's so hard to do. And the cool thing is that now I'm collaborating with these amazing, super high level researchers. to use these toys to bring this into the real world to really study them. So I'll give you an example. We just received a grant with two researchers at Harvard at MGH to study cryotherapy and long COVID, specifically dysautonomia.

[00:20:21] Rachele: Now you might say, Oh, that's cool. Why didn't they just do that by themselves? Here's a million reasons why you can't just go and do research. A cryotherapy chamber. Guess how much that costs?

[00:20:31] Rachel M 2: So much money,

[00:20:32] Felicia: Like 30, 000, I have no

[00:20:34] Rachele: No, keep going.

[00:20:35] Felicia: Really?

[00:20:37] Rachele: 300, 000.

[00:20:38] Felicia: Wait, are you kidding me?

[00:20:40] Rachele: No, and not only that, but think about this,

[00:20:43] Rachel M 2: but they can put you into the future because it's cryotherapy, right? So you could freeze your whole bot. That's what you're studying,

[00:20:48] Felicia: heard it's just the head, but you know,

[00:20:51] Rachele: we can talk about the therapies, but in this situation, so not only that, do you have the cost of the machine, but they're huge. They're enormous. So we lived in Boston

[00:21:00] Felicia: where would you put it? I'm just thinking also electrical costs are probably just as much as the cost of the chamber itself.

[00:21:06] Rachele: And then the attendance that you need to pay attention to every single time you have to have a research associate that goes and opens the door and closes the door, you have to have somebody clean up afterwards. You have to have parking. Has anybody ever parked at MGH before? 

[00:21:21] Felicia: Well, that's also just as much as the cost of the chamber itself as well. So I see how this is really becoming a multimillion dollar escapade.

[00:21:28] Rachele: All of a sudden you are at a million and a half dollars to study cryotherapy for 12 weeks in 15 people, right? And it's like, well, that's crazy to spend that amount of money. And so these researchers said to me, how many locations do you have in the Boston area? Seven. Do they all have free parking? Yes. Is there a nurse on site at every location?

[00:21:46] Rachele: Yes. Can we do blood draws? Yes. Is there an attendee that is trained in both HIPAA and safety to put somebody into and take them out of the chambers? Yes. All of a sudden, we are removing barriers to studying these things that everybody's talking about and they want to understand the data and the researchers themselves can't figure out how to do it because the literal cost of entry to doing this kind of work is completely prohibitive.

[00:22:12] Rachele: So, am I in a space where, record scratching, nobody saw me going in 2018? In 2024, I'm like, hell yeah, let's figure out how to do this.

[00:22:25] Rachel M 2: Well, you just teed me up for my next question because you were talking about it and I don't think you actually mentioned the name of the company. I'm assuming it's okay since it's public, but it's restore hyper wellness,

[00:22:34] Rachele: Yep. We can say it. Yeah, that's totally right. Yeah. It's for store hyper wellness.

[00:22:37] Rachel M 2: Excellent. And I pass by it at least once a week when I'm going to a particular place in where I live in San Diego and I see it and I'm very drawn to it and I get the Instagram ads for it. I have a few questions related to this. I love how optimistic you are about all this. We have had many conversations about it. I'm all about alternative therapies if I could have my way with all the things. But you are one of the most skeptical people I know and it's.

[00:23:05] Rachel M 2: This wasn't exactly the question, but hearing you talk about it, it's so interesting being in the industry. I see why it's so important. You just explained it. But of course, if you found that cryotherapy actually was bad or maybe didn't cause harm, but wasn't as effective, this is the conflict with the research, right? If you found something bad, then what will Restore Hyper Wellness do? Would they cut it out? They can't stamp you down because you were like, no, I'm going to speak my mind, whatever the truth is. But there's that rub because of capitalism. So how does that work for you?

[00:23:39] Rachele: It's such a good question. And I have to say over the last year and a half, almost two years now, I feel like I have gotten like an immersive MBA in like how these businesses actually work behind the scene. And so I think there's two things that I'd say. The first thing that I want to say about the wellness industry, and again, these are my people, so I'm biased, is every single company, every single group that I've ever worked with, regardless of where they ended, where they started was trying to solve a problem, right? So every single one has started at the very beginning to say, I see that there is a problem here.

[00:24:18] Rachele: Most of the time I see that healthcare, as we know, it is not addressing this problem and I am going to create a solution for it. And the skillset that they bring is not necessarily all the time subject matter expertise, but business acumen, right? So to this point of capitalism, and full disclosure, I am a capitalist, I actually believe that we need to scale and we need to bring good things to people as long as it's done well and done right, and we are compensating people for their work and fill in, you know, we'd go down that, that

[00:24:49] Rachel M 2: Conscious capitalism.

[00:24:51] Rachele: conscious. I love that. Yes, that's exactly right. Um,

[00:24:55] Rachel M 2: didn't make it up. It was somebody

[00:24:56] Rachele: okay. Well, I'm crediting you from

[00:24:58] Rachel M 2: I love it. That's great. I love that.

[00:25:00] Rachele: one of the things that I have recognized in getting this sort of immersive MBA is the people behind the scenes are incredible at their jobs. And for the most part, they are actually not trying to be misleading, right? Like the situation that I see oftentimes is you get these amazing chief financial officers and marketing people. And in our case, we've got all these nurses and much of my career, I have recognized that they are really, really, really good at what they do. And they have never had education about nutrition, about exercise, about performance, about muscle. So they're pulling information based on where everybody else is getting their information if you're not an expert. And so this was the other part that was so exciting for me. I came in, not just as the scientist, but my job is actually the director of scientific research and education. And so I got to sit with all these folks and be like, No, that's not how that works. We got to roll this back a little bit and marketing team, we're going to really figure out where to get the evidence base. And if you look at our blogs over the last year and a half, they have taken a very different tack because we are working together to make sure that the good information gets brought to the people.

[00:26:16] Rachele: I have monthly webinars, internal to our system myth busting webinars, where I'm like this is actually how this works and we need to make sure that we're using these top tracks because this is the way that it's being presented in the general population is incorrect and we are here to be truth tellers. I will tell you, every single person in the group that I've worked with, as has every physician that I've worked with, every nurse that I've worked with, every dietician that I've worked with, they are hungry for the truth and they are hungry for the correct answers. And that is no different in this system. So yes, they are incredibly skilled at making money and for the most part, the majority of them want to make money by doing the right thing. I truly and genuinely believe that and that message has been embraced just enthusiastically in our entire system.

[00:27:09] Felicia: I appreciate that. I love that this is a position that this company's created. I also love and maybe this is an offline conversation that you keep saying for the most part. So

[00:27:21] Rachele: Yeah,

[00:27:22] Felicia: like, really? But

[00:27:25] Rachele: so let me, let me actually address that. I 

[00:27:27] Felicia: okay. 

[00:27:27] Rachele: really important. I am forever an optimist and an empath and I believe that people are doing the best that they can. That is my default position, right? I truly have always felt that way about people. I give people the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes to my own detriment. I get burned because I'm like, I was thinking that you're a really good human as it turns out you're a complete asshole. But I think what often happens in this space, and I don't think it's unique to the fitness and wellness world, right, I think that people see dollar signs and they see in order to continue to make those dollar signs, you have to continue to advance. You have to continue to create new product. You have to continue to create new revenue streams. That is something that has been really interesting to observe and see how people do it well and see how people do it not so well in the space.

[00:28:18] Rachele: So a really controversial one, I think, right now is the commercial availability of these GLP1 products, right? So these are the mostly generic versions of the Wegovies, the Ozempics, the weight loss products. We could go down a whole rabbit hole of whether or not these products are good for people, diet culture. We could do that whole thing, but let me to say that these are medications that have been on the market for over 20 years to help people with type 2 diabetes. They were recognized to have these off label effects like weight loss. And now we're seeing things like kidney disease and dementia and all these things that are really interesting about this product.

[00:28:58] Rachele: And. There's a whole bunch of companies out there, ours included, that are offering GLP1 receptor agonists to our clients that are created in compounding pharmacies. And one of the studies that I am submitting to a very high level journal is we have been monitoring our clients that have been on these therapies for the last three, and then I'll have follow up for six months, looking at body composition included in their weight loss. So we are seeing that these products work as they are working based on the Nova Nordisk and the Eli Lilly versions. One of the things that I worked very, very hard with our chief medical officer on, with our product team, with our franchise owners is we are going to monitor these for safety in our clients.

[00:29:44] Rachele: We put in every single studio, you are meeting monthly with our nurse practitioner. You are getting on an in body and we are making sure that you are losing adipose tissue and not muscle. And you are getting counseling to make sure that you are getting your protein in and you're getting your exercise in to maintain that skeletal muscle.

[00:30:01] Rachele: Not every company is doing that, Felicia, to your point of the for the most part, right? We are doing that and it's because we are in a position to have somebody like me, somebody like a chief medical officer that has power within the system. There are a lot of companies that you can go to that are getting their products from shady compounding pharmacies and they get mailed to you because you have just talked to somebody on a telehealth and you never actually see anybody in person. And that is also real. So ever the optimist over here, right? I believe that most of the things that are happening in the wellness space are good and well intentioned. I also recognize that there are people that are just looking to make a buck because they can. And I also am seeing firsthand how a company that really cares about this can do it well and do it right by putting their money where their mouth is.

[00:30:56] Rachel M 2: I'm glad to know that. So I guess maybe I'll sign up. But let's switch gears a little bit because there's a lot of conversation around public health and science and the current public discourse that science is, quote, questionable. People are just asking questions, Rachele. They're just asking

[00:31:13] Felicia: And they're not scientists, but they think they know just as much.

[00:31:16] Rachel M 2: they do. They do. It's, it's wild. And now there's a new ruling by the Supreme Court that happened a month or two ago where basically decisions are going to be left up to judges to determine, to make scientific choices, which, you know, Great. And then we're seeing a little bit of pseudoscience, whether that's RFK Jr., a little bit of Andrew Huberman, and that's controversial, but I'm just going to put that out there, but we'd just love to hear your thoughts on the importance of public health, and the government and in making choices about science and nutrition and health and longevity.

[00:31:51] Rachele: This is like a funny double edged sword, where I work in nutrition and exercise. And if you were to look at the budget for research from the majority of the governmental grants that are offered to scientists or through the NIH, National Institutes of Health. And there are billions of dollars in the National Institutes of Health to fund many, many, many different therapies and understandings of what happens in the human body and beyond. The allocation of that amount of money that goes toward nutrition and exercise and some of these more preventive therapies is minuscule compared to many of the ,other things that we're looking at and granted, if we're looking at aging and cancer and cardiovascular disease, those groups should definitely be getting a significant amount of money, given the disease burden that we have. However, it's really hard, coming back to this initial conversation that we had, to get this funding from the government. That being said, if that money wasn't there, the majority of the science, particularly the basic science, the stuff that happens in the lab with pipettes would not happen because these companies are not doing that kind of research in order to then develop the products that stand on top of it.

[00:33:04] Rachele: So thinking about something like an mRNA vaccine, right? A lot of that early work happened in university based labs with NIH dollars that Moderna and Pfizer and others were then able to use and layer on to in order to create these commercially available products. So, government has a very important role in the foundation of science.

[00:33:31] Rachele: That money, however, is allocated in a way where the scientist gets to use it, and then create an intervention, create an experiment, and generate data that then gets interpreted by the experts. Where we are, I think, unfortunately, seeing a lot of governmental intervention is again, keeps coming up in my world, these non subject matter experts that are being tasked to interpret something that they really have no idea how to read, how to analyze, how to apply in a large and generalizable way.

[00:34:08] Rachele: And so that's where I worry. Is that if the judges, if the local politicians are being asked to interpret the outcomes that the scientists have generated without proper advising from the subject matter experts in that space, that's where things start to go awry. Even something as simple as I told you just a moment ago, nutrition and exercise gets very limited dollars from NIH, which requires us, fortunately or unfortunately, you get to decide, to depend on dollars from corporations, from foundations, right? Which muddies the water immediately. One of my favorite studies, if you get money from, let's call it Big Honey, right? There's one of my favorite studies in the whole wide world where they put honey up against sugar, sucrose up against high fructose corn syrup.

[00:35:02] Rachele: It was funded by the honey lobby, which is a real deal. And they actually found at the end of the day that the honey, the high fructose corn syrup, and the sugar did exactly the same thing in the body. If you were to ask a biochemist like me, what would happen if you gave people honey, high fructose, corn syrup, or sugar, we'd be like, Oh, the same thing's going to happen in the body.

[00:35:20] Rachele: But if you ask Big Honey Lobby, they're like, Oh, but the bees and there's just so much wonderful things

[00:35:26] Rachel M 2: It's natural, Rachele. It's 

[00:35:28] Rachele: natural. Right? So now we're introducing a bias here based upon the funder. The science wasn't biased at all, but the fact that somebody looks back and says, this is the funder. So as we start now to develop this, I don't know if it's healthy or unhealthy skepticism within the general population. Now they're like, oh, but that was funded by government, or, oh, that was funded by Big Honey, or, oh, that was funded, and so we're creating this distrust in the entire system, right? And now you've got distrust in the people that are reading these studies, even though they don't really know how to interpret them.

[00:36:04] Rachele: We've got the judges and the local politicians that are getting feedback from people that are genuinely trying to be thoughtful and careful, but just don't know how to interpret it. And you come back to the root source of, where's this funding coming from? And everything starts to become this wild conspiracy theory without actually asking those of us that are doing the work, what is the strength of this data? Where is it applied? Where is it generalizable? And this comes back to something that I've said forever and ever and ever is scientists suck at social media. We are terrible at telling people what our science actually says, which leaves the politician, the general consumer, the whoever is reading the work up to a level of interpretation that they're probably not prepared to engage in because they just haven't been trained in how to do it.

[00:36:51] Rachele: And this is where I try again, coming back to my Restore group and the work that I'm trying to do is like, hi, I'm a scientist. I'm going to show you how to read this. And then I'm going to help you to interpret it so that we can understand where that bias should or should not lie.

[00:37:07] Rachel M 2: Well, you've got, you know, I mentioned Andrew Huberman, but you also have Peter Attia, you have Tim Ferriss, so you have these sort of, and, I guess Joe Rogan to some extent as well, who I know, they are the communicators of science now.

[00:37:19] Rachel M 2: They are the ones who people trust. How do we figure out who to trust in a way, especially with when some of them are like legitimate scientists, or they have scientists on to discuss? How can the average Joe or Jane, suss out who to believe?

[00:37:34] Rachele: Yeah. This is the hard part and this is the vacuum that has been filled behind the scientists suck at social media. When you think about the advertisements that the government has put out over the years that are public health announcements. We probably all remember that this is your brain. This is your brain on drugs commercial, right? That was probably the most impactful or one of the most impactful public health messaging systems that has happened, but there's a vacuum there, right? There's a lot of things that people have questions about now that there is not an expert that's being stood up or there isn't somebody that is able to answer those questions on a real life way, which is something that I'm trying to do.

[00:38:12] Rachele: Which leaves open the door for, I like to call them the cult of personality folks. So, this is the Rogans, the Hubermans, the Attias, and, again, I would love to just say they all started out really well intentioned. If you go back to Andrew Huberman, drawing in Instagram, showing people, this is a heart muscle, this is how blood pumps into the heart, and this is how a nerve works, and everything.

[00:38:37] Rachele: It was awesome. I was totally on board. And then all of a sudden, we're creating protocols, completely outside of his scope of expertise. He's brilliant, but he is an eyeball expert. Like, his whole thing is in the nerve that runs from the eye to the brain. Fascinating. If you wanted to talk about nerves and the nervous system and eyesight and all of these things, thumbs up. The problem is once you create that circus, you got to keep the circus going. This is where we start to have issues. He puts out a podcast. What as they all do once a week ish. That's 52 guests that you have got to come and talk about something on your podcast. The more sensational, the better because the more clicks you get, the more clicks you get, the more advertising dollars you get. So what started out as well, intentioned and Felicia, this comes right back to your like earlier skepticism, all of a sudden gets a complete life of its own because it has to be self-sustaining or else you lose the entire platform. Huberman's had a bunch of guests on that I'm like, these people are incredible. They are unbelievable experts in their space. I actually think Attia brings even better people onto his podcast. Rogan, God only knows who he brings. Sometimes amazing people. Sometimes that I'm like, you are just here for the clicks.

[00:39:57] Rachele: And so Rachel, to your question of who do we trust? Right now, I don't know, and the reason is because the experts are not being given the microphone in the way that they actually need to be because they are being filtered through these cults of personality. And also scientists tend to be like wallflowers, right?

[00:40:18] Rachele: They tend to be like, just leave me in my lab. I want to do my work. I don't want to be on a podcast. So finding those unicorns that can do the work and communicate the science in a really compelling way is very, very hard. So let me give you just one general rule of thumb to think about when you are listening to people that are guests on podcasts or whatever, are they speaking about something that they have a very specific and high level training in right?

[00:40:46] Rachele: So Huberman again, if he was talking about the nervous system and he's talking about brain health and whatever, great. The second he starts talking about supplement stacks and strength training protocols and inflammation pathways that go along, he is out of his lane, right?

[00:41:05] Rachele: Bring somebody in the top, have a conversation about somebody, elevate them. But don't be creating your own shit based on your n of one data. So rule number one is make sure that the person that you are listening to has actual specific training in whatever it is that they're talking about and make sure whatever it is they're talking about isn't just the buzzword of the day, right?

[00:41:27] Rachele: So if somebody says to you longevity, hormone health, health span, whatever, that's SEO. We're just driving the clicks at that point. If somebody says, this person is an expert in women's hormonal health during exercise, and they have a PhD in biochemistry with a track record of researching women, I'd be like, okay, I'm intrigued. I'm intrigued. I'll go down that route, but start talking to all these dips that are like, oh, yeah, I'm like, I've taken a certification on hormone health and balancing hormones just. Like scroll, like move along

[00:42:03] Felicia: You're like, left swipe, please. 

[00:42:04] Rachele: yeah, exactly.

[00:42:06] Felicia: Well, you mentioned longevity I think once or twice before as well. And that actually happens to be one of your areas of expertise. So you mentioned that you have a position at Stanford and it's actually Stanford's center on longevity. So let's talk about that.

[00:42:20] Felicia: How'd you get involved in this space specifically, and I'd love to learn a little bit more about your thoughts around health span versus lifespan.

[00:42:27] Rachele: Yeah, I love this. This is great. So, longevity has taken on a really different meaning over the last five years or so likely about post COVID as people are starting to think about how long they live and we were all faced with sort of the grim reality of how fragile for each of us during that really tragic time.

[00:42:47] Rachele: And so longevity has really taken on a very different connotation than I think it did prior to COVID, where it has now become a biohacking trick, where it's like, can you take all of these supplements? Can you do red light therapy? Can you do these cold plunges, but like only on Tuesdays and never 15 minutes before bed and how can we do all of these things in a very specific protocol in order to enhance our life. Very honestly, Felicia, is I think what they're trying to do is increase health span, right? Which is if we think about lifespan, it is you live for a certain period of time, somewhere between 80 and 95 years old, depending on whether you're female or male. What we're trying to do is essentially stay vital and energetic and with as much cognitive processes as we could possibly have before we die. I always say this when I think about health span. My goal, my personal goal is to live to 96. I've had two great, great grandparents that have lived to 96. So, I've got a genetic benchmark. And I am a skier. So this is my dream is that at age 96, I go take like a ripper of a ski run. I come down to the bottom, I have a beer, I fall asleep on the couch and I don't wake up right.

[00:44:11] Rachele: Like that's how I want to go out.

[00:44:12] Felicia: So I'm sorry, I have to just hop in because as you were sharing, what I thought you were going to say is that you take a ripper of a ski run down, sorry I'm not a skier, down the hill, crash into a tree

[00:44:23] Rachele: No, not that, no, no, a hundred percent.

[00:44:26] Felicia: gentler and nicer and I love that for you.

[00:44:30] Rachele: Yeah, I'm looking for the beer and the nap. I'm looking for the apres, Felicia. So that's health span. You have this sort of like long period of life and you have this experience of being present, being vital, being able to do all of the things that you love until you literally close your eyes and take your last breath.

[00:44:49] Rachele: What I think is being misinterpreted now is this idea of longevity. Everybody's like, oh, I want to live to 103. I want to live to 107, which, I guess that's kind of like a cool, weird goal to have. Like, I want to be the longest lived person. But I think that really what people are looking for is, I want to live a long life. I want to live to those end ranges that our genetics are going to determine in a way where I've got the apres, right? I've got that moment at the end where I've just lived it up to the very last second and take my final breath in complete enjoyment. What longevity meant before COVID, and I think still does when you look at the research and science side of the world.

[00:45:27] Rachele: So thinking about the center of longevity is how do we keep people, and this goes back to the public health narrative too, how do we keep people from developing the diseases of our time? Because if you look at the actual data, very few people are going to live to the apres. They're not going to do it.

[00:45:44] Rachele: What's going to get us is cardiovascular disease, number one. Number two, cancer. Number three, type two diabetes, where we start to see our body sort of degenerating, our metabolism, our nervous system start to degenerate over time. And so what that does is it decreases health span, because now you're taking four or five different medications, you're not able to go out and be vital and be present because you have a real true sickness or illness that you are battling late in life.

[00:46:16] Rachele: And so those are two differentiations that I think are really important. When I was doing my research and still in some cases am, I was looking to prevent people from getting heart disease. I was looking to prevent type 2 diabetes with diet and exercise. I was looking to prevent sarcopenia. All these buzzwords around oh, should I be taking, what's my supplement stack? What's my, this, what my, like, that's not actually going to prevent these diseases as

[00:46:42] Rachel M 2: Stop it, Rachele. Stop it. 

[00:46:45] Rachele: know. 

[00:46:45] Felicia: like this should be like breaking news.

[00:46:48] Rachel M 2: I know.

[00:46:49] Rachele: Put my, put my ticker tape down on the bottom.

[00:46:51] Rachel M 2: feel like this is also an intervention for me right now all of a sudden.

[00:46:55] Rachele: Like the thing that's, the thing that

[00:46:56] Felicia: like, like, tell us like what actually does contribute then?

[00:46:59] Rachele: I was just going to tell 

[00:47:00] Felicia: like waiting, bated 

[00:47:01] Rachele: I was just going to say,

[00:47:02] Rachel M 2: Wine, right, Rachel?

[00:47:03] Rachele: Yeah, the data on alcohol is always like sobering, literally.

[00:47:07] Rachel M 2: literally.

[00:47:09] Rachele: This is what works truly. And like, nobody really wants to do it because it's very unsexy to talk about.

[00:47:14] Rachele: Again, why scientists are constantly being pushed off the circuit is cause, it's just so boring. Exercise regularly, eat your fruits and vegetables, some lean protein, get your unsaturated fats on board. Seed oils mean nothing, right? Like just eat your unsaturated fats. Have a community around you of people that are supportive.

[00:47:35] Rachele: Get your sleep. Seven to nine hours a day, and in some way, shape, or form, find a moment of rest of whether you call that gratitude or meaning or whatever, find that feeling where you are removing yourself from all of the screens and the external inputs, and putting that all into one big package, this is the key, consistency.

[00:48:00] Rachele: Because you know what, I tell this to people all the time, you can go and do one day at the gym and get that, pump in your biceps, and if you don't do it three, four times a week, 52 weeks a year, we all know, use it or lose it, right? And your body will lose it. So consistency is key. I have this phrase that I like to use, especially when I think about exercise.

[00:48:21] Rachele: It's Same shit, different shirt,

[00:48:25] Rachel M 2: Ah. I

[00:48:27] Rachele: Like literally doing the same thing. And now, so like, how am I going to get on the podcast circuit? I mean, minus you guys, like, thank you so much for elevating this, but like, you know who's not going to get on Huberman talking about eating your fruits and

[00:48:38] Felicia: attention world, we have the answers, sleep, exercise, eat well, repeat. Everyone's like,

[00:48:46] Rachele: boring. No, that's like totally.

[00:48:48] Rachel M 2: I will never forget when you did a presentation at one of our events, and I just remember, you were talking about all these different diets, which that's not even a word anymore that people say. But , you were showing the pictures of the different types of diets and it was literally just the same thing.

[00:49:06] Rachel M 2: It was like lean protein, healthy grain, a bunch of vegetables, consistently across the board. It's just like, but I will just share because I can, cause I'm a co host, so I can do whatever I want. So as, as many,

[00:49:23] Felicia: this going as the other co host, do I have to hop in 

[00:49:26] Rachel M 2: do I have to censor? No, just because, I like a little bit of nutritional counseling, of course, and, I'm turning 50 next year. So we have a joke in my household because I'm running a lot lately and I signed up for my first marathon next year.

[00:49:42] Rachel M 2: I know I'm very excited. I've been doing a bunch of halves. But we joke that I'm running away from death. But as we all know, death has 100 percent hit rate. But to your point, it's really interesting hearing about, okay, these are the things because I do, I have my little witches brew. And it's like based on the research, right? So like creatine, there's all these really good reasons to have creatine. Cognitive health muscles and all that. And as we age, it's really important to make sure that we keep our muscles. Thank you Peter Attia for really driving that point home. I got you, buddy. Like I hate strength training, but I'm doing it.

[00:50:12] Rachele: Yeah.

[00:50:13] Rachel M 2: So are there like, I know protocols is like the worst word, and there's just the obvious things that you need to do, but would you say, especially since you're the Restore Hyper Wellness director of scientific research.

[00:50:25] Rachel M 2: There probably are some things outside of all of the real basics that you mentioned that you would still recommend, and I want to tie that into how the industry has changed since you started in 20 years ago, plus to now. Has the thinking about that stuff changed outside of that core basic consistency stuff that nobody wants to hear about?

[00:50:45] Rachele: Yeah, it's a great question and I wouldn't be doing this if I didn't believe there was a place for these kinds of things right and so, yes, I do believe that there is a real opportunity to use these complimentary types of therapies. And I like to use the word complimentary because same shit, different shirt, has to happen first and then you compliment that. So like when you said just a second ago, I, we joke around that I'm outrunning death. You might not be outrunning the number of the age that you're going to die, but you're going to feel a whole hell of a lot better, like five seconds before you take it down.

[00:51:23] Rachele: So, yes, I do believe that there is a tremendous amount of opportunity that can happen if you get the basics right first, so complimentary is the word that I really like to use and I think it's super important. Let's use cryotherapy, for example, right? Cryotherapy is distinct and unique from cold plunge, which everybody is really excited about these days, where basically it's a very cold chamber. You enter the chamber for three minutes. It's incredibly cold. Three times colder than the water that you would get in from a cold plunge. And basically what it does is it has this very direct effect, like a snap effect on the nociceptors, these little nerve endings that are in your skin. The way I'd like to think about it is, it's like a snap, right?

[00:52:07] Rachele: It's like a switch that you can flip that essentially has a direct effect on your nervous system. And one of the things that we are recognizing that it potentially could do, is help with immediate pain. So let's say you are somebody that's a runner and you're doing all the things right, and for whatever reason, maybe it's your gait, maybe it's your genes, maybe it's your build, maybe it's the shoes that you wear, maybe it's just the wear and tear. You're just like, I have some chronic back pain, right? I just have it and it's impairing my sleep. And this is a problem for me.

[00:52:39] Rachele: I don't want to take a bunch of ibuprofen for whatever reason that you don't want to do it. Is there something else that I can do? We're seeing that that snap of the nervous system with cryotherapy could potentially help your pain and could get you through so that you can continue doing all the things that you love to do, right?

[00:52:59] Rachele: This is the fun part, is what we are actually recognizing with a lot of these therapies is like the basics, they work better the more often that you use them. And I'm not saying this to get you to come and join a

[00:53:12] Felicia: I'm like the capitalist, companies

[00:53:14] Rachel M 2: Yeah,

[00:53:14] Felicia: are like excellent.

[00:53:16] Rachel M 2: this, this episode brought to you by Restore Hyper Wellness, get a 20 percent off discount

[00:53:21] Felicia: a one and done. 

[00:53:23] Rachele: for them. I swear it's not. This is independent from my work. No, what we're noticing, so this is actually really interesting, is, much like exercise, a lot of these therapies that are external environmental shifts, whether it's light or cold or heat, they have what's called a hormetic effect on your body, right?

[00:53:42] Rachele: So what this means is a tiny bit of stress, not too much, not too little, that essentially creates some kind of physiologic change in your body. Exercise is a perfect example. So if you've ever exercised one time, you'll know, 24 hours later, you're pretty sore. It's because the tissue has been damaged and the way that you get stronger is your immune system comes in and they put all those building blocks back in place and they do it in a better way than you were 48 hours ago.

[00:54:07] Rachele: So with that tiny bit of stress, you end up building muscle, becoming more metabolically healthy. And you have all these downstream beneficial effects, reduced inflammation. What we're seeing is that most of these therapies, these complementary therapies, things like temperature, cold, light, have this hormetic effect where they put a tiny stress on your body And then you take it away and your body responds to that tiny stress by changing some kind of physiologic variable.

[00:54:36] Rachele: Most of the time, if you've ever done these complimentary therapies, you know, you'll go in, maybe not cryotherapy because you leave and you're like, Oh, I feel amazing, that feels crazy. Or like infrared sauna, you're like, Oh, I'm so relaxed. Most of the time you leave and like, Eh, I guess I feel fine. Like I don't really feel it that much. And what happens is, and we're showing this in the literature, and as I mentioned, we just released a study that looked at nine months worth of utilization, is that it takes some time for this thing to actually have a physiologic effect, as in the molecules in your body are changing.

[00:55:08] Rachele: The second that you take that stimulus away, it's again, it's a use it or lose it situation like exercise. As you stop exercising, your muscles are going to go away. You stop eating fruits and vegetables, your gut's going to get all fucked up.

[00:55:20] Rachele: Right? This is the thing that consistency is key is that don't expect complimentary therapy is short of something maybe like pain where you're just like, I just feel pain right now and I need some kind of relief. If you really want to change the reason why that pain is happening, you got to go look at your running gait and look at your shoes and all these things, and use these complimentary therapies consistently with these behaviors, because that seems to be where the magic is.

[00:55:43] Rachel M 2: my gosh, I'm so annoyed that we're almost out of time, but if you don't have any particular like issues with pain or anything, is there still a benefit to doing these? And we didn't even talk about the IV drips that Restore also has.

[00:55:57] Rachele: Yeah. So I'm going to put like a total question mark on the IV drips. This is on my very, very short list of studies to get rolling is what are these therapies, these IV drips doing? We know that they're for the most part pretty safe, which is excellent. We know that they help hydrate people, which probably is something that people need in general.

[00:56:17] Rachele: What these very high dose micronutrients are doing, I have some thoughts and I have some research collaborators that I am reaching out to and some pretty high level research institutions that want to understand this too. It's really challenging to study IV therapies because you actually do need to get FDA approval to do it.

[00:56:37] Rachele: So again, there's a whole barrier of how do you actually study this stuff, but that's on my short list of really figuring out why do people seem to have a very positive experience with these therapies? If you ask the general population that comes in to get their drips, what do you get?

[00:56:55] Rachele: I get magnesium because it helps my legs and my muscles feel better. It helps me sleep. I get high dose vitamin C and glutathione because I have a disease with chronic inflammation and it seems to help reduce my pain and reduce my inflammatory load. It's all anecdote for the most part right now.

[00:57:11] Rachele: There are some really interesting use cases for IV micronutrients. So there's been some cancer studies that look at high dose vitamin C and high dose glutathione. There has been a couple of studies looking at what we call the Myers cocktail, which is this blend of C vitamins and B vitamins. 

[00:57:28] Rachele: But here's the other really interesting thing about research. For the most part. And this goes back to, you're like, what do you use if you don't have chronic pain. If you study a healthy population and I give healthy humans IV magnesium, IV glutathione, and I take your blood, and I put an Oura ring on you, and we measure your HRV, and I ask you how are you feeling, and I do all the surveys, and I study healthy people, after 12 months, do you know what my statistics are going to show?

[00:57:57] Rachele: Nothing. They're going to show that you're still healthy, right? So this is where interpretation is super important. If I study healthy people and I publish that study that says, nothing changed, this didn't do anything. All of a sudden I've created a narrative around the evidence of absence, right?

[00:58:16] Rachele: I have created a situation where I took a bunch of healthy people and I said, this did nothing. Well, Duh, it did nothing. You were already healthy. There was no place for your metrics to go, right? And so this is where the science gets really interesting, is if I want to see something change, I need to recruit a population that change is possible.

[00:58:39] Rachele: So whether it's somebody in this new study that has long COVID and has dysautonomia, whether it is somebody that has chronic pain, whether it's somebody that has a high inflammatory load, that's cool. That's interesting that I can show that I'm helping these people, but then we have what we call in science a generalizability problem.

[00:58:57] Rachele: Okay, so let's say I take somebody with rheumatoid arthritis or fibromyalgia or migraines and I show that these IV micronutrients help them, does that mean it's going to help the general population? I don't know, cause I can't study the general population cause you know what I'm going to show? Nothing. So this is the hard part about doing this science, is you ask me, as a normal healthy human, what should I be doing to change nothing?

[00:59:24] Rachele: I don't know. I don't know. It's hard to study nothing.

[00:59:27] Rachele: I will say, the IV micronutrients, again, our safety data show it's pristine, short of what you would get from any kind of risk of putting a needle in your arm that you would get anywhere, for the most part, we see that it is very safe. And what we're generally seeing is that we've got sort of these protocols based upon a lot of oral data because there's not a lot of injectables data that could potentially be helpful for people.

[00:59:52] Rachele: And the other thing that I would say, what should healthy people do is find something that works for you right now that really does make you feel a little bit better because the placebo effect, even if that's what all of this is, is real. It's an actual effect. And if you go in and you're like, you know what I need? 60 minutes to myself where I'm not checking my screen and I'm getting some fluids and I'm getting a little magnesium and for whatever reason, I feel like that helps me fall asleep at night and it starts to click you into a virtuous cycle.

[01:00:25] Rachele: You get my thumbs up. That's yeah. It's so real.

[01:00:29] Rachel M 2: That's so real. I know my witch's brew is 100%, not 100%, but there's a probably very high percentage of placebo. I am absolutely convinced that my taking a ridiculous amount of salt now in the morning is literally making me superhuman.

[01:00:44] Rachele: Just make sure you're also taking a lot of water with that

[01:00:46] Rachel M 2: I, I'm very hydrated. 16 ounces of water with my witch's brew.

[01:00:51] Rachel M 2: So, thank you. My doctor said it's okay.

[01:00:54] Rachele: Yeah. Be careful if you have hypertension with salt, but

[01:00:56] Rachel M 2: And I don't. Thank you. I appreciate you. Thank you. Yeah, don't listen to me. 

[01:01:00] Rachele: I just would like to double tap on that too like I happened to work for this company they're being super forward thinking about this. And there are other companies that are doing this, right? So one of the things that we had talked about in an industry level is how can we get the scientists that work on these teams to all come together and essentially create a consortium of scientists that are like operating in this space where we've got a marketing department and we've got a microphone and we can help you to start to discern between the good stuff and the bullshit, right?

[01:01:29] Rachele: I do think that there is an opportunity for that. And that conversation is happening, which is very exciting. And every single scientist that I work with in this space, like, yes, we work for these companies, and we also have opportunities right now, to step outside of that box that we work in and really talk about what's going on behind the scenes so that people can make really informed decisions for themselves without feeling like we need to represent our company specifically. So thank you for that opportunity.

[01:01:57] Felicia: This is so great. I wish we could spend another hour talking because we have so much more to go through, but we

[01:02:04] Rachel M 2: get to wine yet. We didn't talk about so many things.

[01:02:08] Rachele: Yeah. Wine, the data is sad on wine

[01:02:11] Rachel M 2: I know it is. I know. I

[01:02:13] Rachele: you want to, there's, yeah, interesting thing. So the data on wine is sobering. That's what I like to say. There is no data to show that any amount of alcohol is healthy despite prior claims. That being said, there was a new analysis that came out the other day that basically showed that drinking a little isn't that statistically different than not drinking at all, which is great.

[01:02:32] Rachele: So again, just the interpretation, like which way are we reading 

[01:02:35] Rachel M 2: I just listened to a podcast episode about it and it was like something like if you drink, I think it's like less than seven glasses a week, or around that you lose like two weeks of your life. And it's like the last two and as we just discussed, that's probably for the best.

[01:02:53] Rachele: And there's also interesting data. So, again, if you like tease into this and anybody has bias, right? I drink red wine, this is my bias. Remember one of the pillars that's so important is social support. If you're drinking alone, probably not the greatest idea, but if you are out and you are enjoying and you are laughing and you are having those moments of social connection alongside of your glass or two of red wine, that might actually be the secret sauce, not the resveratrol that everybody was trying to put in a bottle for years.

[01:03:23] Rachel M 2: Great point. Great point. Stay hydrated too with it

[01:03:26] Rachele: Yeah. And stay hydrated. 100%.

[01:03:28] Felicia: We started off by talking about how long it's been since we've had it with you and COVID and all that other stuff. It seems if I recall back to four years ago, I know personally, I was like, well, the world seems to be ending, so why not just drink every night because I can't go out. So, oh, well, and I've obviously, well, maybe not obviously, but I've shifted away from that approach, but I also feel like there's all these trends now where younger generations are not actually drinking a lot and they're choosing other vices or other things to lean on or utilize.

[01:04:02] Felicia: And so I do think that it's helpful to hear some of the research come out because it was propped up for so long as, Oh, it's healthy for you. You should have this. The doctor prescribed it, and like everything in life, I'm sure it's just everything in moderation, but the social aspect that you keep mentioning, I think is so, so critical because as Rachel Murray knows, I think a lot of us are dealing with aging parents and community and what does that look like and how do we want to be with people and I think it is so important to have some kind of support network. It doesn't have to be family, but it can be people you live with, your neighbors, whoever. And so I think that's actually a really interesting element of everything as well, because it's not just the take this pill and you'll be fine, but take this pill and talk to a friend and maybe you'll be a little bit better.

[01:04:48] Rachele: Yeah. It's so interesting. You bring up how I'm working at Stanford now in the center of longevity and like the specific group that I'm working with is called Stanford Lifestyle Medicine, and they've got all these pillars of health, right? And one of them is social connection. And one of the things is we have these weekly meetings and it's, it's so fun guys, it's like the who's who of all the like famous people you have ever heard of, they're in this zoom meeting. And I'm like, how did I get looped into this group? It is so cool. I can't actually tell you, but you can go look at the website and see what names are up there. Super fun. I mean, I could actually tell you, but it's on the website.

[01:05:19] Rachele: It's like this meeting of the minds once a week. It's so fun. One of the things that we're constantly talking about is none of these pillars are happening in isolation, right? So when you talk about social connection and you're talking about having a couple of glasses of wine with somebody, that same kind of social connection happens with exercise, right?

[01:05:36] Rachele: Like you go to the gym, you go to a spin class and you're high fiving people with sweaty everything all over the place, or you go and you have a meal with people like that's, you know, food is so much more than just the nutrients that make it up, right?

[01:05:49] Rachele: Think about every single social environment, birthdays, funerals, weddings, going to Fenway Park, all of these things involve some element of food and the social connection. Again, back to this idea of Venn diagrams, they all come together and we can't look at them in isolation, which is why, I hesitate with things like the complementary therapies, like what could I do that could just fix me? Or the supplements, what's the perfect supplement stack? There is no such thing because all of these pieces are going to be interacting together. And that's kind of what makes it magic. It is really hard to just look at it one single thing in isolation, the way that scientists do, you actually do need to zoom out and do a little bit of interpretation.

[01:06:29] Rachel M 2: Amazing Rachele, thank you so much. I think we got to, like a third of the questions that we had for you. So that's perfect, but before we go, is there anything you want to particularly promote right now?

[01:06:40] Rachele: Yeah, I mentioned my Venn diagram. So my little company that I have been working on really promoting is called Strong Process. And right now it's an education company for both people in the fitness and wellness industry, as well as healthcare providers that are looking for more information on nutrition and exercise, rest and recovery, and really looking at the data.

[01:07:02] Rachele: So I like to say, talking to science is my love language and making it simple to understand is my superpower, right? So that's the thing that I'm trying to do over on that site. I'm really excited about bringing all of these worlds together. Kind of like all these pillars. They all form together. And if we start talking to each other and we start having these really important conversations, which is why I'm so honored when you both asked me to come and speak to your community because these are the kinds of conversations that need to be happening, rather than just listening to the cults of personality, because it's much more nuanced than a supplement stack or a witch's brew or going to get cryotherapy once a week. It really is about how do all of these things work together and how do we all work together to make sure that we're forming this community and supporting one another.

[01:07:48] Rachel M 2: Beautifully said.

[01:07:49] Rachele: Thank you so much for providing the space. It's so important. I said it years ago. I think I said it, when I presented at your event, something to the effect of, thank you so much for creating a space for nerds like me, that literally back in the day, were nervous to say something smart and thoughtful, and knowing the right answer, not that this conversation has a right answer necessarily, but it's just so liberating and important to create this kind of a space for people that have a passion and an expertise.

[01:08:22] Rachele: So thank you.

[01:08:23] Rachel M 2: we're so happy to have your big brain sharing all of this wonderful information with all of us. And we'll have you back because clearly we have

[01:08:34] Rachele: We got more to talk

[01:08:35] Felicia: We have more to talk about more, more questions to ask you. More vices to get your input on. Cause

[01:08:42] Rachel M 2: asking questions. We need

[01:08:44] Rachele: drink wine. Just do it with friends. Just

[01:08:45] Rachel M 2: I love it.

[01:08:46] Felicia: as stupid

[01:08:47] Rachel M 2: Great, now we have our headline. You'll never believe what nutritionist expert said. Alright, enough. We'll go. We'll go. We'll do this. We'll have you back on. Thank you so much, Rachel.

[01:08:59] Rachele: Amazing. Thank you both. 

[01:09:02] Rachel: Well, that was delightful and informative and I feel smarter. Do you feel smarter?

[01:09:09] Felicia: Oh, absolutely. Anytime I talk to Rachele, 

[01:09:11] Rachel: Seriously. 

[01:09:12] Felicia: I should say really all the Rachel's in my life

[01:09:14] Rachel: Oh, thanks. Thank you very much.

[01:09:17] Felicia: I always feel smarter.

[01:09:18] Rachel: I know. Yeah, it was great. I could so geek out about this topic forever. We both hope that you enjoyed listening to this interview as much as we enjoyed the conversation.

[01:09:28] Felicia: So before you go, just want to quickly share that we have a really exciting webinar coming up. If I do say so myself, it is going to be held on October 30th from 12 to one Eastern time in the cloud. So you can be from anywhere. You could be joining from who knows where outer space, maybe. Yes, I see what we did there.

[01:09:47] Felicia: But in any case, wherever you're coming from join, it'll be myself. And I'm going to be joined by a very special guest who is not named Rachel, surprisingly enough, but really, really excited. It's kind of like a late breaking news, cause we just confirmed this a couple of days ago, but I will be joined by my wonderful friend, colleague, wonderful person in this space, Katie Hyten.

[01:10:07] Felicia: She is the executive director an amazing organization called essential partners, and they do just fabulous work having dialogue and difficult conversations and they've been around forever. I cannot wait to have her on the webinar and we're going to have a chat about how to manage conversations that are challenging and difficult, especially related to the upcoming election at work.

[01:10:30] Felicia: So do not miss that. It's going to be an amazing time. I hope to see you there virtually.

[01:10:35] Rachel: yeah, I am so excited for this topic. It is so needed and yeah, you both are just really brilliant people, so it's going to be great. Thank you so much for listening. Please don't forget to rate, share, and subscribe. It makes a huge difference in the reach of this podcast and by extension, this work and visit us on YouTube, Instagram, and LinkedIn to stay up to date on all things inclusion geeks.

[01:10:57] Rachel: Stay geeky. Bye. Bye. Bye.